duo2999

iTrader: (1)

I don't mean to make multiple threads, but this is unrelated to my other thread.

So today I went to get two tires and I also took my battery to autozone to have it charged and test there because I bought it from there. Results for the battery were good. So I thought everything was good. I did start the car to move it this morning and I did not let it warm up as I normally do.

So hours go by and I get the two tires and have them swapped out on my two front rims. Go home and install them and I go to start and nothing. It just turns over and over and over. It doesn't sound right. Not catching at all. I did search for my symptoms in the form but I couldn't find anything or think of anything.

I checked for fuel. Got it because I can smell it.

I checked for spark. Got spark and I replaced all the plugs today.

I checked for air as well but I have no idea if that is the problem. Air filter is pretty new and clean. I hear the door in the afm flap open and close when it is cranking but is it supposed to flap like that? I know it is supposed to open, I just mean is it supposed to flap open and closed really fast?

So I don't know what else to do. I'd like to be able to drive my car to school next week but I don't know what to do. I do feel really stupid that I did not let it warm up completely today.

I did a "compression test" with a regular tester and I got the three even bounces, but I know that even if it bounces it might be really bad compression, however the engine was rebuilt about 14k ago.

As far as mods go, It is a stock 88 n/a with a 87 motor. I have a K&N cone filter and a breather filter on the air pump. I also have a Corksport radiator installed. I just cleaned my grounds and the battery terminals as well.

Any help is greatly appreciated. I've been having the worst luck ever lately. I hope this problem can be remedied soon and I can finally drive my car. If I forgot to list anything about my car, let me know and I will respond in a pretty timely manner. Thank you everyone.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

What were the pressure readings when you did the compression test? It sounds like you just flooded it, so pull the EGI fuses, crank, replace, then try to start it up again. Give it a little throttle during cranking to try to get it going. If it's really bad you can pull the spark plugs before cranking it to help clear the fuel.

jjcobm

iTrader: (18)

Flood.

When you remove the EGI fuse, crank for 10 seconds with your foot all the way down on the accelerator, STOP. Let the starter rest for a minute, crank again for 10 seconds, STOP. Replace EGI fuse. With your foot off the gas, crank and it will start. Severe cases reqire spark plug removal and adding a teaspoon of engine oil to each rotor housing.

LunchboxCritter

iTrader: (9)

I would pull the EGI fuse, crank for 10 sec, pause for 10 sec, crank, pause (about 8 times total) then reinstall the EGI fuse and start as you normally would.

*Make sure your battery is fully charged and if possible hook it to a running vehicle via jumper cables. If your battery is weak when you go to start it, then it can cause it to flood again, because the engine won't be spinning fast enough to start and it'll be pumping gas back into it. I recently flooded my 91 rx7 and our rx8 from attempting to start them while the batteries were weak.

Push starting is always an option (hills permitting) to help start one when it's flooded.

duo2999

iTrader: (1)

I did the deflooding process several times. By pulling the EGI fuse and cranking for 10 sec and pulling the spark plugs and cranking with the fuse out as well and nothing. I hear the "puffs" when the motor spins and they sound even but there is a distinct sound to how it should sound and it sounds nothing like that.

I don't have any videos of the car while it is turning over, but I can take one tomorrow (weather permitting) and upload it to youtube, but the best I can do for now is this.

it sounds nothing like this fc when it starts up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZOMIXlCvrc

I don't remember if my motor sounds exactly like this video, but if it does then the car is just going to be a backyard queen project from now on. school's about to start and I need a reliable car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_0fH...eature=related

so best case scenario, it just starts up another day no problem.

worst case, all apex seals are toast. it was a fun run. kind of an odd end. If the motor did blow i expected that to happen while driving it hard. not sitting in my driveway for a few hours. lame lame lame...

jjcobm

iTrader: (18)

Did you hear 3 even pulses per rotor when you had the plugs out, or was there a missing pulse? Also are you cranking on a level surface? If the rear of the car is higher than the front, you won't get it de-flooded.

duo2999

iTrader: (1)

@jjcobm Yes i hear the even pulses when the plugs are out. I tested that before I kept trying to mess with anything.

As far as a level surface, my driveway is at a very minimal incline, but the rear is lower than the front when it is on my driveway.

i'll have to mess with it next weekend when the weather doesn't suck as much. if nothing else I can plan to go turbo in a few years or so.

jjcobm

iTrader: (18)

Thats pretty drastic.... If you can't get this started, i'm not sure at TII swap would be your best way to go. Just saying...

Did you crank with the accelerator all the way down when EGI fuse is pulled?

3vil

iTrader: (4)

i'm also curious how you went about deflooding it. did you try injecting a little bit of oil (not ATF) into the spark plug hole? ( trailing plug i think, but i'm not 100% sure)

duo2999

iTrader: (1)

@jjcobm Yes I tried with the EGI fuse pulled and the pedal down. I cranked it for 10 seconds, replaced the fuse and tried to start it and I got the same results.

@3vil I didn't try oil yet but I wasn't even sure that would work. It'd be easier for the trailing plug hole as well. As far as deflooding goes, I pull the fuse, hold the pedal down, turn it over, and replace everything and I am usually on my merry way. I did also try pulling all spark plugs and doing the same thing but I got the same results.

Does it make a difference that I have synthetic oil? I mean it shouldn't, right? That'd be pretty odd for that to cause all this. Whenever I get a chance I'll try putting oil in there and try to start it and see what happens. I'll try to get a video of what it sounds like when I turn it over. Whenever this stupid weather goes away.

I also tried pulling codes from the ECU but it did not flash anything, but the s4 computer only gives codes for a handful of stuff.

Ok so I need to try putting oil in there to see if I can help it build compression to start. If it doesn't start should I try starter fluid?

HAILERS2

DISABLE the fuel pump. All fuses in place. Buy a can of starter fluid. Spray for only about a second maybe two into the air box/filter. With a fully charged battery start the car. IF it runs for a few seconds........repeat the procedure then reconnect the fuel pump and try starting the car.

duo2999

iTrader: (1)

Disable the fuel pump? Could I do that by just unplugging it in the trunk?

I'll have to give that a shot.

And as promised here are two videos I recorded today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrR81-Wo0oQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lFA0uerru0

Let me know what y'all think. I don't think it sounds right.

satch

iTrader: (1)

Yes, you can disable the pump by disconnecting the plug at the rear of the car.

duo2999

iTrader: (1)

Well I didn't need to use starter fluid or disable the fuel pump. I did manage to start the car today.

I put oil in each of the lower spark plug holes because those would let a hose, that i attached to a funnel, be able to pour oil in the housings.

I was unsure if this would make a difference but after turning it over a few times it sounded better and better. Then it started and it puffed out a lovely cloud for a few minutes. I let it warm up and I let it run for about 30 minutes. Turned it off, and it started up again no problem.

Just goes to show, always let the car warm up before shutting it down. Just this one time I didn't do it. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. Now to fix all the other little random crap!

HAILERS2

Make yourself a fuel cut switch which is described SOMEWHERE on this forum.

Or find pin 3B on the ECUs small plug and put a common switch in that circuit to use when the engine is suspected of flooding. Like cut the blue/black wire in 3B a couple of inces back from the plug..........connect one side of this throw switch to the part of the wire that heads to the ECu and then connect the other side of that simple throw switch to the other side of that wire you cut in 3B.

When flooded you'd flip the switch to open the circuit to 3B which would in effect cause much less fuel to be delivered to the rotors when in the Start mode. After the engine warms up you could leave that circuit open all day long to aid starting.

Or buy a RTEK 2.0 chip for your ECU and then your can do what series FIVE owners should do when flooded..............just hold the gas pedal to the floor when starting. Holding the pedal to the floor makes the TPS go full range.........which in turn tells the ECU its at full range and at the same time the ECU is seeing the START signal from the start circuit as the starter is turning. .........which in turn tells the ECU to stop fuel injection as the starter turns over........which results in the fuel in the chambers going out the tail pipe with no new fuel being added.......which results in the last of the residual fuel in the rotor chamber to fire up and start the engine. Once over 500 rpm the engine will ignore the start signal and the engine will stary running. VAroooooom!

Disabling the fuel pump means you pull the plug off the connector located on the aft side of the left read strut tower. Less messy than pouring oil and pullng plugs out imho.

jlaudio982

Were you cranking the engine with the spark plugs installed in those videos? Sounds like it has no or very little compression.