Racing Beat Holley Carb Setup
06-10-04, 09:21 AM
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Racing Beat Holley Carb Setup
Hello all,
I have had a RB Holley setup on my 87 RX for over a year know and have had nothing but troubles with it. I joke about owning the slowest 7 in Michigan (it may actually be true unfortunately). I have put thousands of $ into my ride and it is still so slow . I am basically fisnishing it up and preparing for a TII swap late this fall (I hope).
I have purchased a TII as a donor car and have removed all necessary parts for the swap. I will be sending the S5 engine to BDC for the rebuild and porting.
As far as todays question. I have just noticed (not sure why it took this long) that my oxygen sensor is not hooked up to anything. Could some one send me a pic or a drawing of where I need to hook it up to? It would be greatly appreciated. Would the fact that this is not hooked up, cause the lack of power that my car is demonstrating at this time? I currently also have the throttle positioning sensor unhooked because it actually runs better without it. Weird I would think. I have a new sensor in a box and want to hook it up.
Please advise.
Thanx.........Michael from Michigan
I have had a RB Holley setup on my 87 RX for over a year know and have had nothing but troubles with it. I joke about owning the slowest 7 in Michigan (it may actually be true unfortunately). I have put thousands of $ into my ride and it is still so slow . I am basically fisnishing it up and preparing for a TII swap late this fall (I hope).
I have purchased a TII as a donor car and have removed all necessary parts for the swap. I will be sending the S5 engine to BDC for the rebuild and porting.
As far as todays question. I have just noticed (not sure why it took this long) that my oxygen sensor is not hooked up to anything. Could some one send me a pic or a drawing of where I need to hook it up to? It would be greatly appreciated. Would the fact that this is not hooked up, cause the lack of power that my car is demonstrating at this time? I currently also have the throttle positioning sensor unhooked because it actually runs better without it. Weird I would think. I have a new sensor in a box and want to hook it up.
Please advise.
Thanx.........Michael from Michigan
06-10-04, 12:32 PM
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I ahve the 600 CFM Holley 4-Barrel on it. Within the RB insructions it explains that you have to fabricate a mounting bracket for the TPS to be mounted. Ever since I installed this kit it has run slower than when it was entirely stock.
06-10-04, 01:09 PM
#4
Originally posted by devdog1one
I ahve the 600 CFM Holley 4-Barrel on it. Within the RB insructions it explains that you have to fabricate a mounting bracket for the TPS to be mounted. Ever since I installed this kit it has run slower than when it was entirely stock.
I ahve the 600 CFM Holley 4-Barrel on it. Within the RB insructions it explains that you have to fabricate a mounting bracket for the TPS to be mounted. Ever since I installed this kit it has run slower than when it was entirely stock.
IMHO, you should contact RB; not many people (I believe you are the ONLY one) running the RB carb setup, that's why you aren't getting may responses
Your car should've been WAY faster than when it was stock!
06-10-04, 01:19 PM
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I have contacted them several times over the past year. They have been very professional and curtious at all times. I was suppose to send the Holley back for a re-tune in December but got side tracked. Then I went to Rotary Revolution in April 04. I am waiting on them to test their setup on a dyno. There were just over 300 RX7s at the meet and I was the only 2nd generation Holley setup. This has become very disconcerting for me due to it being a expensive setup to go with, but being a NA guy, I had few options. I will eventually become a TII or Supercharged (Atkins rotary) guy.
Does anyone else have this setup on their 2nd Gen???
If so please contact me.
Thanx once again for the help.
Does anyone else have this setup on their 2nd Gen???
If so please contact me.
Thanx once again for the help.
06-10-04, 01:51 PM
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We use a holley on one of our bridge ported engines. A similiar engine for one of our customers made 260HP on an engine dyno with a Holey 750. The current setup is on an EMod Miata with the 13B bridge port. At the last autocross we didn't have the right jets to get it running above 6000rpm and the car still had FTD of all the cars.
06-10-04, 04:27 PM
#7
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holley setups rule on n/a's.. i dont know why u have an o2 sensor or TPS problem if u dont need the factory ecu anymore... i ran 13.8 on my 84 gsl- 4 port bridge.. holley 650.. stock diff and tires...maybe u have something totally wrong done..
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06-10-04, 04:55 PM
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Im thinking of going with this set up.. What is the gas milage differences, and can you do a blown through turbo setup? how difficult is it?
06-10-04, 05:33 PM
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Re: Racing Beat Holley Carb Setup
Originally posted by devdog1one
I joke about owning the slowest 7 in Michigan (it may actually be true unfortunately). I have put thousands of $ into my ride and it is still so slow .
I joke about owning the slowest 7 in Michigan (it may actually be true unfortunately). I have put thousands of $ into my ride and it is still so slow .
I would have taken your challenge until about 2 weeks ago when I FINALLY (after 2 years) found the problem with mine. The leading coils must have always been weak and finally (the 4th time I checked) there was no spark. I swapped the coil and it was like the cure for cancer! The car ran (at least) 7 times as strong, stopped smoking, stopped flooding, idled better, etc.
Anyway, if you haven't thoroughly checked them, CHECK the coils. It always seems to go back to the basics, bro.
And when you get it running right, we might have to hook up for a race
06-10-04, 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by wpgrexx
if you are running the Holley ditch the ecu and get a dizzy right away. It will eliminate the jerry rigged tps bracket and what not.
if you are running the Holley ditch the ecu and get a dizzy right away. It will eliminate the jerry rigged tps bracket and what not.
06-10-04, 11:05 PM
#16
Originally posted by 85RX7GS
You CAN use the 1st Gen ignitor (J-109) to fire the 2nd Gen ignition coil for direct fire on the leading plugs. The process is simple.
Step one:
Look at your stock leading ignition coil (closest to the strut tower). It has "+" and "-" terminals. Run two wires with eyehooks on either end from your stock leading coil to the 2nd Gen coil. Now remove the leading coil to distributor wire.
Step two:
Mount your 2nd Gen coil (when I had it installed, I bolted it to the strut tower). Disconnect the wiring on the "+" and "-" terminals of the 2nd Gen coil and put the new connections on the studs (those wires that you just made in step one). Don't forget to solder the ballast resistor (located beneath the ignitor backing plate) inline with the positive lead.
Step three:
Take your two leading plug wires and connect L1 on the engine to L1 on the coil. Do the same for L2. Now go to the distributor. Pull the trailing wires off and connect them to the leading terminals, i.e., connect "T" to "L", "T1" to "L1" and "T2" to "L2".
Step four:
Put the hood down, get in the car and start 'er up. Go for a test drive and enjoy your new FCDFIS. <----How do ya like that? FCDFIS: FC Direct Fire Ignition System. Made it up myself
Maybe inittab could add this to his FAQ?? I've even got a couple of diagrams from various ignition systems that I've tried that could be scanned or digitized if there is a need. Heck, I could even teach people how to install DLIDFIS in 20 minutes. Anyway, hope it helps.
You CAN use the 1st Gen ignitor (J-109) to fire the 2nd Gen ignition coil for direct fire on the leading plugs. The process is simple.
Step one:
Look at your stock leading ignition coil (closest to the strut tower). It has "+" and "-" terminals. Run two wires with eyehooks on either end from your stock leading coil to the 2nd Gen coil. Now remove the leading coil to distributor wire.
Step two:
Mount your 2nd Gen coil (when I had it installed, I bolted it to the strut tower). Disconnect the wiring on the "+" and "-" terminals of the 2nd Gen coil and put the new connections on the studs (those wires that you just made in step one). Don't forget to solder the ballast resistor (located beneath the ignitor backing plate) inline with the positive lead.
Step three:
Take your two leading plug wires and connect L1 on the engine to L1 on the coil. Do the same for L2. Now go to the distributor. Pull the trailing wires off and connect them to the leading terminals, i.e., connect "T" to "L", "T1" to "L1" and "T2" to "L2".
Step four:
Put the hood down, get in the car and start 'er up. Go for a test drive and enjoy your new FCDFIS. <----How do ya like that? FCDFIS: FC Direct Fire Ignition System. Made it up myself
Maybe inittab could add this to his FAQ?? I've even got a couple of diagrams from various ignition systems that I've tried that could be scanned or digitized if there is a need. Heck, I could even teach people how to install DLIDFIS in 20 minutes. Anyway, hope it helps.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ghlight=FCDFIS
youll need a 1st gen distributer "sp?"
06-11-04, 06:45 AM
#18
Originally posted by NZConvertible
Put the EFI back on.
Put the EFI back on.
Stock EFI won't be able to touch the carb setup when it comes to power.
-Drivability, might say true to your stament, altough it is not imposible to have it on carb setup.
-MPG, definetly stock efi, then again hp vs hp won't be the same.
I know were you are coming from with your statement, but you out of most people around here; should know that a carb setup will yield A LOT of HP (on a NA) when compared to the stock ecu.
06-11-04, 07:10 AM
#19
Jesus is the Messiah
Originally posted by KNONFS
Stock EFI won't be able to touch the carb setup when it comes to power.
Stock EFI won't be able to touch the carb setup when it comes to power.
It is simply not true. This has been debated time and time again, and on many, many different cars; a carb and an EFI, when tuned well, will both preform around the _same_ HP numbers. But an EFI will get better 'drivability', it will tune itself to the weather better, and it will almost ALWAYS yeild better fuel economy.
Our ECUs in particular are lacking, yes, but there are workarounds to fixing that. (S-AFC)
Carbs can be a LOT easier to work with though :O
Personally I'd get an aftermaket ECU like a Haltech over a carburated setup :O But thats just me, some people like the carb more, though thats up to them, really.
Last edited by Tofuball; 06-11-04 at 07:16 AM.
06-11-04, 07:22 AM
#20
Originally posted by Tofuball
You simply cannot make statements like that.
It is simply not true. This has been debated time and time again, and on many, many different cars; a carb and an EFI, when tuned well, will both preform around the _same_ HP numbers. But an EFI will get better 'drivability', it will tune itself to the weather better, and it will almost ALWAYS yeild better fuel economy.
Our ECUs in particular are lacking, yes, but there are workarounds to fixing that. (S-AFC)
Carbs can be a LOT easier to work with though :O
Personally I'd get an aftermaket ECU like a Haltech over a carburated setup :O But thats just me, some people like the carb more, though thats up to them, really.
You simply cannot make statements like that.
It is simply not true. This has been debated time and time again, and on many, many different cars; a carb and an EFI, when tuned well, will both preform around the _same_ HP numbers. But an EFI will get better 'drivability', it will tune itself to the weather better, and it will almost ALWAYS yeild better fuel economy.
Our ECUs in particular are lacking, yes, but there are workarounds to fixing that. (S-AFC)
Carbs can be a LOT easier to work with though :O
Personally I'd get an aftermaket ECU like a Haltech over a carburated setup :O But thats just me, some people like the carb more, though thats up to them, really.
Of course, it is not a fair comparison, but that how it is. However, I agree with you a Stand alone will be a better move, but that is not the case here.
BTW - You can always go stand alone AND 4 barrel style TB
06-11-04, 07:52 AM
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you can run stock ignition but you have to find the correct resistors to trick the ecu into thinking everything else is okay.
There is an article on the net somewhere where a standalone,a holley and a weber carb setup were all tested on the same street port 6 port, the standalone did 225, the holley did 224, and the weber was lagging behind. So it proved that a carb can make power. And there are a lot of rotary race drivers and mechanics that would agree.
I will be doing that conversion on my buddies car when he finally gets the money to do it. with atkins blower on top of it!!!!
There is an article on the net somewhere where a standalone,a holley and a weber carb setup were all tested on the same street port 6 port, the standalone did 225, the holley did 224, and the weber was lagging behind. So it proved that a carb can make power. And there are a lot of rotary race drivers and mechanics that would agree.
I will be doing that conversion on my buddies car when he finally gets the money to do it. with atkins blower on top of it!!!!
06-11-04, 08:23 AM
#22
Jesus is the Messiah
Originally posted by KNONFS
Stock EFI even with a Apex SAFC, won't touch a carb system when it comes to HP on a FC NA, IT JUST WON'T!
Stock EFI even with a Apex SAFC, won't touch a carb system when it comes to HP on a FC NA, IT JUST WON'T!
I'm just standing up for EFI in general though, should anyone reading this thread's mind be going down the path of the carb, I want them to at least consider the standalone :-p
On a somewhat related topic, I found out that my friend's '03 1.8T Jetta has an ECU that puts ours utterly to shame:
It has a Wideband O2 sensor, stock. The ECU has learning curves, it adapts automatically to higher-flow injectors (To a point) and it will automatically use the MAP instead of the MAF if the MAF is disabled/faulty.
06-11-04, 08:48 AM
#23
Originally posted by wpgrexx
you can run stock ignition but you have to find the correct resistors to trick the ecu into thinking everything else is okay.
There is an article on the net somewhere where a standalone,a holley and a weber carb setup were all tested on the same street port 6 port, the standalone did 225, the holley did 224, and the weber was lagging behind. So it proved that a carb can make power. And there are a lot of rotary race drivers and mechanics that would agree.
I will be doing that conversion on my buddies car when he finally gets the money to do it. with atkins blower on top of it!!!!
you can run stock ignition but you have to find the correct resistors to trick the ecu into thinking everything else is okay.
There is an article on the net somewhere where a standalone,a holley and a weber carb setup were all tested on the same street port 6 port, the standalone did 225, the holley did 224, and the weber was lagging behind. So it proved that a carb can make power. And there are a lot of rotary race drivers and mechanics that would agree.
I will be doing that conversion on my buddies car when he finally gets the money to do it. with atkins blower on top of it!!!!
They had issues with the EFI webbers due to not having the propper ram tubes.
BTW - This test was performed by one of the Racing Beat tech guys.
06-11-04, 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by KNONFS
The other way arounf, the holley was the one with the lowest powerband, the sidedraft webber was the one with the better powerband, and the EFI down draft webber style carbs was in between.
They had issues with the EFI webbers due to not having the propper ram tubes.
BTW - This test was performed by one of the Racing Beat tech guys.
The other way arounf, the holley was the one with the lowest powerband, the sidedraft webber was the one with the better powerband, and the EFI down draft webber style carbs was in between.
They had issues with the EFI webbers due to not having the propper ram tubes.
BTW - This test was performed by one of the Racing Beat tech guys.