RA super seals vs Goopy. Pros/Cons. what would you use?
#102
Sharp Claws
iTrader: (30)
not worth the money IMO, so far. i went with Goopy because the first engine i built had semi worn out 3mm seal slots and replacing them wouldn't have been worthwhile when a simple set of seals sufficed. it took some teeth pulling to get set up as a vendor for the Goopy seals but so far they have not let me down, as well they have similar business goals which is longevity of these engine lines and refurbishing used parts to still work for the long term, even under stressful conditions.
if someone brought an engine and provided or wanted ALS seals i wouldn't tell them no but so far on this site it seems i am pioneering the Goopy seals and one of their few advocates. for the most part my customers are budget builders, so higher dollar parts are a detriment and can cost some jobs to even cheaper builders(while i still believe you can't beat the quality i provide for the price).
where the Atkins/OEM seals failed the Goopy seals picked up the slack. i don't like engines breaking so something's gotta give. tuning/fuel issues almost always kill these turbo engines before they are due and you want something that can take it. as a builder, even if it you're not at fault it eventually looks bad upon you whenever an engine fails(that is my take on it anyways, preventative maintenance from the start, while not trying to sell the moon).
almost every turbo owner eventually wants more power, "a cheap car is not fast and fast car is not cheap". (words from an old friend)
if someone brought an engine and provided or wanted ALS seals i wouldn't tell them no but so far on this site it seems i am pioneering the Goopy seals and one of their few advocates. for the most part my customers are budget builders, so higher dollar parts are a detriment and can cost some jobs to even cheaper builders(while i still believe you can't beat the quality i provide for the price).
where the Atkins/OEM seals failed the Goopy seals picked up the slack. i don't like engines breaking so something's gotta give. tuning/fuel issues almost always kill these turbo engines before they are due and you want something that can take it. as a builder, even if it you're not at fault it eventually looks bad upon you whenever an engine fails(that is my take on it anyways, preventative maintenance from the start, while not trying to sell the moon).
almost every turbo owner eventually wants more power, "a cheap car is not fast and fast car is not cheap". (words from an old friend)
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-02-13 at 07:36 PM.
#106
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gun Barrel City, Texas
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#108
Beat up body
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cape Coral FL
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RA Super Seals are great IMO i had 30,000 beat the hell out of miles on my S4/S5/S6 rebuild ran the s4 omp no premix and is still running strong 15 psi boost 10000 rpm rev limit self tuned lt10s and even survived a walbro that burnt out and 1 venom 1000 cc injector that died at wot.
#110
RA Super Seals are great IMO i had 30,000 beat the hell out of miles on my S4/S5/S6 rebuild ran the s4 omp no premix and is still running strong 15 psi boost 10000 rpm rev limit self tuned lt10s and even survived a walbro that burnt out and 1 venom 1000 cc injector that died at wot.
Rotary >Pistons
#111
Smells like 2 stroke.
I've Rockwell tested Mazda apex seals, and looked at them under a metallurgical microscope. They are hard, but they aren't some magical unattainable hardness. I could get H13 to a similar, if not the same hardness. H13 has tremendous thermal resistance, (It holds it's hardness/toughness even when under thermal loads.) Temperature resistance and hardness vs. price is my goal.
#116
Sharp Claws
iTrader: (30)
i just called Jon and he has everything except 3mm single piece oversize seal sets. OEM 3rd gen apex spring sets are additional $90(recommended).
pricing would likely be as follows and applies to all series and size seals, shipped price within the US, international orders will be additional. price is for a set for a 2 rotor engine(6 full seals):
up to 10 sets $325
10-25 sets $310
25-50 sets $300
50+ sets $295(minimum price i'm allowed)
this is just a ballpark, i may widen the range as an incentive because i realize 50+ sets may be a long shot. keep in mind these sets do retail for $350 plus shipping($357 within the US) so up to $62 off which is a 17% discount. considering this will be a group buy for 1st/2nd and 3rd gens i honestly think we can get there(surprise me, i told Jon it may be difficult due to the randomness of the DIY rebuild amounts. good thing about apex seals is they have no shelf life though so you can buy them in anticipation of an overhaul).
pricing would likely be as follows and applies to all series and size seals, shipped price within the US, international orders will be additional. price is for a set for a 2 rotor engine(6 full seals):
up to 10 sets $325
10-25 sets $310
25-50 sets $300
50+ sets $295(minimum price i'm allowed)
this is just a ballpark, i may widen the range as an incentive because i realize 50+ sets may be a long shot. keep in mind these sets do retail for $350 plus shipping($357 within the US) so up to $62 off which is a 17% discount. considering this will be a group buy for 1st/2nd and 3rd gens i honestly think we can get there(surprise me, i told Jon it may be difficult due to the randomness of the DIY rebuild amounts. good thing about apex seals is they have no shelf life though so you can buy them in anticipation of an overhaul).
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-08-13 at 05:04 PM.
#118
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,804
Received 2,577 Likes
on
1,831 Posts
i just called Jon and he has everything except 3mm single piece oversize seal sets. OEM 3rd gen apex spring sets are additional $90(recommended).
pricing would likely be as follows and applies to all series and size seals, shipped price within the US, international orders will be additional. price is for a set for a 2 rotor engine(6 full seals):
up to 10 sets $325
10-25 sets $310
25-50 sets $300
50+ sets $295(minimum price i'm allowed)
this is just a ballpark, i may widen the range as an incentive because i realize 50+ sets may be a long shot. keep in mind these sets do retail for $350 plus shipping($357 within the US) so up to $62 off which is a 17% discount. considering this will be a group buy for 1st/2nd and 3rd gens i honestly think we can get there(surprise me, i told Jon it may be difficult due to the randomness of the DIY rebuild amounts. good thing about apex seals is they have no shelf life though so you can buy them in anticipation of an overhaul).
pricing would likely be as follows and applies to all series and size seals, shipped price within the US, international orders will be additional. price is for a set for a 2 rotor engine(6 full seals):
up to 10 sets $325
10-25 sets $310
25-50 sets $300
50+ sets $295(minimum price i'm allowed)
this is just a ballpark, i may widen the range as an incentive because i realize 50+ sets may be a long shot. keep in mind these sets do retail for $350 plus shipping($357 within the US) so up to $62 off which is a 17% discount. considering this will be a group buy for 1st/2nd and 3rd gens i honestly think we can get there(surprise me, i told Jon it may be difficult due to the randomness of the DIY rebuild amounts. good thing about apex seals is they have no shelf life though so you can buy them in anticipation of an overhaul).
#119
Kick 'er Sh*tty
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would be interested in a group buy for Goopy seals. I'm shooting for close to 500whp and from what I've read Goopy seems to be the way to go. Also I noticed you recommended their apex seal springs but I already have a complete rebuild minus the apex seals, will this be a problem if I don't use their springs?
#120
I would be interested in a group buy for Goopy seals. I'm shooting for close to 500whp and from what I've read Goopy seems to be the way to go. Also I noticed you recommended their apex seal springs but I already have a complete rebuild minus the apex seals, will this be a problem if I don't use their springs?
The Atkins and mazda seals have the longest life but have the higher chances to break if there ever is an issue.
In short goopy/als if you don't mind spending the extra money, if you're not willing to spend that extra money and/or don't care about taking a chance at having potential rotor housing wear get ra super seals.
#121
Kick 'er Sh*tty
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I researched this a bit, I was actually the op of this thread and my conclusion is for "unbreakable" apex seals goopy and als seem to have the most consistant positive reviews, while ra has more mixed reviews than anything else.
The Atkins and mazda seals have the longest life but have the higher chances to break if there ever is an issue.
In short goopy/als if you don't mind spending the extra money, if you're not willing to spend that extra money and/or don't care about taking a chance at having potential rotor housing wear get ra super seals.
The Atkins and mazda seals have the longest life but have the higher chances to break if there ever is an issue.
In short goopy/als if you don't mind spending the extra money, if you're not willing to spend that extra money and/or don't care about taking a chance at having potential rotor housing wear get ra super seals.
#122
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thought this might be a good place to post this. Im considering using the goopy 3mm 2 piece in a genuine 12a turbo build. How does one go about using this "file kit" to clearance the slots for the oversize seals? Im assuming if not careful one could easly stuff it up. Not to mention, sounds labour intensive!!
#123
talking head
Thought this might be a good place to post this. Im considering using the goopy 3mm 2 piece in a genuine 12a turbo build. How does one go about using this "file kit" to clearance the slots for the oversize seals? Im assuming if not careful one could easly stuff it up. Not to mention, sounds labour intensive!!
it does take a long time.. i reckon i put about 2 hrs into each slot ( include side seals )
but each shave is so minimal only inattention will amount to a stuff up
goopy include a couple of feeler gauges and it is difficult to go wrong if you measure every few minutes
if i was doing another i would probs this time make a jig like a wood triangle to hold the rotor flat and over the edge of a bench to stop it moving around so much
#125
Rotary Freak
iTrader: (5)
I believe my motor might of been built using RA super seals , Now concidering I wanted my motor to LAST a long time ,and thats why i'm runing it in very convservative boost . is there any ways to prolong the life of the very very very MINT housings .. that went into this motor.. has anyone tried using MORE premix ? has that yielded results ?