RA super seals vs Goopy. Pros/Cons. what would you use?
02-21-13, 07:40 PM
#31
I was thinking of using ra classic or super seals.
For these Id have to premix but should you premix and use the omp , or can you premix without omp and get the same results?
Overkill on lubrication doesn't seem like a bad idea on a spirited driven car.
I realize I'd have to religiously add a set ratio of premix every time I gas up.
Rotary >Pistons
For these Id have to premix but should you premix and use the omp , or can you premix without omp and get the same results?
Overkill on lubrication doesn't seem like a bad idea on a spirited driven car.
I realize I'd have to religiously add a set ratio of premix every time I gas up.
Rotary >Pistons
02-21-13, 07:47 PM
#34
If its for any rebuild you just helped me learn something important. Gotta love this place.
I never ran premix on my na rebuild, just initially changed the oil in relatively short intervals.
Rotary >Pistons
02-21-13, 11:24 PM
#36
talking head
in terms of carbon input into the engine then fuel // unburned fuel far outweighs the injected oils
on carbon locked rotors the spot with the least cake ( often with no cake ) is the tip of the rotors in the middle.. where the OMP oil drip is ...
indeed.. FD import engines seem to be fairly prone to carbon lock
.. yet they use the electronic OMP and by design use far less injected oils than other engines..
and so i would say that the cold start strategies have to be implicated as the real cause
02-22-13, 03:19 AM
#37
Over-oiling the top oil (premix, injection, whatever) is a good way to gum up the motor and stick a seal.
My experience indicates the opposite effect with premix.
I used 3mm RA super seals and tried to stop the galling by premixing a quart per fill up of quicksilver 2 stroke with the regular OMP function as well.
Those were the cleanest motors I have ever taken apart, just a little carbon stuck on the aluminum part of the exhaust port walls.
The 3mm RA seals still wore the housings out in sort order.
With stock 3mm seals I just premix 3oz or so MMO with the stock OMP and housings are nice and flat and rotors stay clean.
I think you get bad carbon deposits from dirty engine oil being injected, EGR function and stock crankcase venting.
My experience indicates the opposite effect with premix.
I used 3mm RA super seals and tried to stop the galling by premixing a quart per fill up of quicksilver 2 stroke with the regular OMP function as well.
Those were the cleanest motors I have ever taken apart, just a little carbon stuck on the aluminum part of the exhaust port walls.
The 3mm RA seals still wore the housings out in sort order.
With stock 3mm seals I just premix 3oz or so MMO with the stock OMP and housings are nice and flat and rotors stay clean.
I think you get bad carbon deposits from dirty engine oil being injected, EGR function and stock crankcase venting.
02-22-13, 01:35 PM
#41
I used those same used housings for probably around 15,000 miles and 5 years with different seals on different rebuilds.
Mostly auto-x and pleasure driving.
I could still be using them. I should not have said they wore the housings out in short order (which makes you think there is no chrome left) but rather wore the housings out of spec in short order as all the stock seal housings I have seen have flat even wear (except the corner assist piece digging in).
They have lots of fine shallow inline grooving all the way around the housings (will make a noise against your fingernail, but not catch it).
The rubbing surface of the apex seals have the same fine shallow grooving as well and the 3mm RA Classics even have fine cracks toward the corner assist piece on the rubbing surface. I have not seen these cracks on the 2mm or 3mm RA Super Seals.
I went crazy with the premix, doubling it to a quart/tank on the last 3mm RA Super Seals and those seals do have much less striation across the rubbing surface.
When I initially put the motor together the housings had stock looking flat wear but had a deep gouge in the chrome from losing an apex seal just before the exhaust port on one rotor housing. Because of this gouge I was able to visually judge the wear of the chrome through different builds. Both the Classic and SS 3mm seals seem to wear the chrome more than the 2mm SS as expected.
I went to flat used housings, stock 3mm seals, and a dash of MMO with most fill ups and the housings have stayed with stock looking flat wear so far (around a year of racing).
Mostly auto-x and pleasure driving.
I could still be using them. I should not have said they wore the housings out in short order (which makes you think there is no chrome left) but rather wore the housings out of spec in short order as all the stock seal housings I have seen have flat even wear (except the corner assist piece digging in).
They have lots of fine shallow inline grooving all the way around the housings (will make a noise against your fingernail, but not catch it).
The rubbing surface of the apex seals have the same fine shallow grooving as well and the 3mm RA Classics even have fine cracks toward the corner assist piece on the rubbing surface. I have not seen these cracks on the 2mm or 3mm RA Super Seals.
I went crazy with the premix, doubling it to a quart/tank on the last 3mm RA Super Seals and those seals do have much less striation across the rubbing surface.
When I initially put the motor together the housings had stock looking flat wear but had a deep gouge in the chrome from losing an apex seal just before the exhaust port on one rotor housing. Because of this gouge I was able to visually judge the wear of the chrome through different builds. Both the Classic and SS 3mm seals seem to wear the chrome more than the 2mm SS as expected.
I went to flat used housings, stock 3mm seals, and a dash of MMO with most fill ups and the housings have stayed with stock looking flat wear so far (around a year of racing).
02-22-13, 02:07 PM
#42
How long ago were running this engine?
Seems like people either love or hate these RA seals.
I'm still on the fence as to whether I'd use them or not, mostly like them due to being very strong and low priced (which seems like an oxymoron).
Rotary >Pistons
Seems like people either love or hate these RA seals.
I'm still on the fence as to whether I'd use them or not, mostly like them due to being very strong and low priced (which seems like an oxymoron).
Rotary >Pistons
02-22-13, 07:12 PM
#44
I used those same used housings for probably around 15,000 miles and 5 years with different seals on different rebuilds.
Mostly auto-x and pleasure driving.
I could still be using them. I should not have said they wore the housings out in short order (which makes you think there is no chrome left) but rather wore the housings out of spec in short order as all the stock seal housings I have seen have flat even wear (except the corner assist piece digging in).
They have lots of fine shallow inline grooving all the way around the housings (will make a noise against your fingernail, but not catch it).
The rubbing surface of the apex seals have the same fine shallow grooving as well and the 3mm RA Classics even have fine cracks toward the corner assist piece on the rubbing surface. I have not seen these cracks on the 2mm or 3mm RA Super Seals.
I went crazy with the premix, doubling it to a quart/tank on the last 3mm RA Super Seals and those seals do have much less striation across the rubbing surface.
When I initially put the motor together the housings had stock looking flat wear but had a deep gouge in the chrome from losing an apex seal just before the exhaust port on one rotor housing. Because of this gouge I was able to visually judge the wear of the chrome through different builds. Both the Classic and SS 3mm seals seem to wear the chrome more than the 2mm SS as expected.
I went to flat used housings, stock 3mm seals, and a dash of MMO with most fill ups and the housings have stayed with stock looking flat wear so far (around a year of racing).
Mostly auto-x and pleasure driving.
I could still be using them. I should not have said they wore the housings out in short order (which makes you think there is no chrome left) but rather wore the housings out of spec in short order as all the stock seal housings I have seen have flat even wear (except the corner assist piece digging in).
They have lots of fine shallow inline grooving all the way around the housings (will make a noise against your fingernail, but not catch it).
The rubbing surface of the apex seals have the same fine shallow grooving as well and the 3mm RA Classics even have fine cracks toward the corner assist piece on the rubbing surface. I have not seen these cracks on the 2mm or 3mm RA Super Seals.
I went crazy with the premix, doubling it to a quart/tank on the last 3mm RA Super Seals and those seals do have much less striation across the rubbing surface.
When I initially put the motor together the housings had stock looking flat wear but had a deep gouge in the chrome from losing an apex seal just before the exhaust port on one rotor housing. Because of this gouge I was able to visually judge the wear of the chrome through different builds. Both the Classic and SS 3mm seals seem to wear the chrome more than the 2mm SS as expected.
I went to flat used housings, stock 3mm seals, and a dash of MMO with most fill ups and the housings have stayed with stock looking flat wear so far (around a year of racing).
02-22-13, 11:42 PM
#47
Senior Member
if my intentions were to keep the hp levels relatively low (ie, 225-250 whp w/2mm) i side w/RotaryEvolution's preference of the classics. have you seen the damage the damn OEM apex small piece can do to the rotor housing's edge?
keep the OPM, add premix from the start, and adhere to proper break-in procedures and you'll have many happy rotary years.
ps- racing beat suggests running over 4 oz per gal premix on 600 hp 2 rotor engines (no OMP).
keep the OPM, add premix from the start, and adhere to proper break-in procedures and you'll have many happy rotary years.
ps- racing beat suggests running over 4 oz per gal premix on 600 hp 2 rotor engines (no OMP).
Last edited by Clubuser; 02-23-13 at 12:07 AM.
02-22-13, 11:48 PM
#48
meant soft seals in my last reply.
4 ounces is a little drastic IMO. i've had customers run 1 ounce per gallon on street cars pushing close to that level leave virtually no distinguishable wear even after close to 50k miles. the difference is their recommendation is for track use, beyond mid RPMs full time which i would side with a little heavier at say 2 ounces per gallon. a full throttle run here and there i have never seen 1 ounce really cause any issues with the hard seal engines. for softer seals i will find out soon(1 engine pushing 500whp for about 1.5 years on the Goopy seals @ 1ounce castor oil per gallon, spat a coolant seal but the engine should still tell the tale).
4 ounces is a little drastic IMO. i've had customers run 1 ounce per gallon on street cars pushing close to that level leave virtually no distinguishable wear even after close to 50k miles. the difference is their recommendation is for track use, beyond mid RPMs full time which i would side with a little heavier at say 2 ounces per gallon. a full throttle run here and there i have never seen 1 ounce really cause any issues with the hard seal engines. for softer seals i will find out soon(1 engine pushing 500whp for about 1.5 years on the Goopy seals @ 1ounce castor oil per gallon, spat a coolant seal but the engine should still tell the tale).
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-22-13 at 11:53 PM.
02-23-13, 01:03 PM
#49
Senior Member
re: Goopy apex
consider me a guinea pig since they're on my recent rebuild w/now ~700 miles on them. so far so good. however, i'm a little concernd re: their "softness" on longevity.
my set arrived with all the long pieces not butting up perfectly w/the small piece. i had to do some minor filing of the long piece's lower contact area. i was surprised how easily the file cut thru the metal. this file just slides on the OEM pieces.
Goopy seals come w/a coating but i know i was cutting metal.
consider me a guinea pig since they're on my recent rebuild w/now ~700 miles on them. so far so good. however, i'm a little concernd re: their "softness" on longevity.
my set arrived with all the long pieces not butting up perfectly w/the small piece. i had to do some minor filing of the long piece's lower contact area. i was surprised how easily the file cut thru the metal. this file just slides on the OEM pieces.
Goopy seals come w/a coating but i know i was cutting metal.
Last edited by Clubuser; 02-23-13 at 01:07 PM.