UtahRX

Ok guys:
'89 GXL, no mods, 81k miles

My newest 7, which I've had only 3 months, driving perfectly that whole time. Very solid, consistent power, in fact more than my other S5. About a week ago, start-up began taking a second or two longer than before.

So, yesterday:
Cold day, drove to work like always, no problem. Attempt to leave at lunch and starting is a real chore. Once started . . . ouch. Idle is extremely rough, barely wants to stay running, surges as it tries to keep going, but sounds like it'll eventually die.

I give it gas, try to move a little, and . . . almost NO POWER. I'm literally around the corner from a dealer (I know, I know), so I decide to try to get it over there. Top speed is 15-20mph and it takes a good 5k rpm to get even that.

Dealer, three hours later, diagnosis it as "number 2 rotor has gone bad. Engine replacement necessary."

WTF?!

Relatively low miles, VERY well-cared for/maintained, great power - then BOOM, the 2nd rotor goes??? Just like that? Mechanic says even on cars like mine, "sometimes it just happens on THOSE ROTORIES, for no good reason." Says, "We could have looked at it yesterday and not known this was gonna happen."

Grrrrr.

Compression test would absolutely confirm that was what happened, but he, "personally, is 100% sure that's it." Given that this little diagnosis already set me back $150, I can't afford to pay for the compression test right now.

What do you guys have to say? Is all that true? Am I just screwed? This was my ultimate 2nd gen; awesome condition, low miles, everything.

And to top it all off, he says the low-miles engine from my wrecked S4 (another awful, WTF story) won't work in the perfect S5 body, but I don't believe that completely. I just don't know much about that swap, so what WOULD be involved?

IF that happens, until then, I'm back in the '84 12A beater.

Suggestions/advice extremely appreciated; three RX-7s, two bad luck, freak situations, seven years, and I'm outta money.

If nothing else, I'm gonna have a sh*tload of awesome condition parts to unload from both cars.

Like that makes up for all this.

Hate to say it, but a 300ZX TT is looking mighty appealing right now . . .

Funkspectrum

iTrader: (5)

300 ZXTT is WAAAAY too heavy.....In my circle of friends, we call those things "Fattitude"

Anyway, do the poor man's compression test. Pull the EGI fuse and the plugs on the rear rotor. Have someone crank the engine while you stick your finger over the plug holes. You should be able to feel if something is up with the compression that way.

There may be another person on here that could explain this a little better.

mythe7

i think the bare s4 block will work with s5 everything else. someone correct me if im wrong though.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Hey, I just posted this in another thread...

To do a compression test:

-Buy a cheap, conventional tester from any auto parts store ($15).

-At the tip of the tester is a little springly deal called the 'check valve'. Remove this by gently unscewing it. Removing this allows the needle to bounce around so you can get an idea what the compression is for ALL the rotor faces (instead of just the HIGHEST).

-Install the adapter onto the end of the tester that fits your spark plug holes .

-Remove the lower spark plugs (might as well remove all of the plug wires)

-disconnect the Crank Angle Sensor (CAS) by unplugging the white connector coming out of the top of the front cover.

-remove the EGI fuse (closest to the block) from the underhood fuse 'box'.

-Screw the comp tester into either of the lower spark plug holes

-have a friend get in the car, depress the clutch and crank for several seconds while you watch the needle bounce around. Keep cranking 'til you get an idea of the compression #'s.

-Repeat step above for the other spark plug hole.

RX7goZoomZoomBoom

I would do a comp check just to be sure it could be something stupid like your afm took a ****. Definatley no 300zx they are more than just fat. And there are lots of ways to do a cheap comp check just look for consitancy its highly unlikley that both rotors went at the some time so if they are both giving you the same numbers than you should be cool. Don't drive it untill you figured out what the problem is since you could make it worse.

An s4 block will work fine in a S5 but you need to change over the front cover and sometimes to clear the intake manifold you have to grind the end plate a little. S4 and S5 oil pan sensors are a little different but just use all your stuff but I don't know if your engine is gone just yet. These things do happen but like I said it could just be something stupid untill you have gone thorugh everthing in these cars everything seems like it is going to break.

jhammons01

Your plugs could be fouling in cold weather. If you just drive to an fro your car could not be reaching running temp that would burn off all the carbon/oil/fuel on the tips. If your runing rich the problem is compounded. This happened to me in Seattle one year when it was 7 degrees for a week. Thank God Gene Bergs son Doug was up there and had a small shop to save me. The first shop I took it to ( I know, What were you thinking?) Called me an hour later with the same story "new motor" Gas in the oil, blah blah blah. I towed it up to Dougs' shop and that afternoon it was running like a champ. New spark plugs, oil change and fuel mixture adjustment.

Like Ericseven said $15 for a compression tester is not bad. If it is real cold up there I can see why you are reluctant to get under the hood..

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

The S4block will work like everyone else said, I'm using one right now. Do the compression test VERIFY that it is blown.

YearsOfDecay

Before you go and buy a compression tester.... this sounds like a blown rotor...

Pull the EGI fuse... then pull the rear trailing (top) sparke plug... have somebody turn the engine over... should hear a loud PHEW PHEW PHEW..... if you don't... bad rotor... just to be sure.. pull the front and replace the rear... if one rotor is good, you'll hear the noise from one and it will be weaker or non existant from the other.....

Don't need the compression tester if the power is as bad as you say, the sound alone should tell you seen it lots of times....

also low mileage don't mean ****.... if the car sat for long periods of time between use in its now 16 year life..... or was beaten on hard by previous owners.... or was not maintained... the engine life could be drastically reduced... 16 years is a long time.....

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

A few general notes from my experience:

First, compression check. www.rotaryresurrection.com ---> tech ---> compression check

Second, what they said about rotaries letting go is dead on...you can comp. check one today and show 100psi all around, and tomorrow that bitch can chuck a seal for no reason.

The thing is rotaries really don't care much about mileage. I've seen them blown up with 32k on them, and I've seen them still running strong with 220k. IT all depends on it's history, which is something you really dont know. You'd be surprised the **** people do (or don't do) to a new car after buying it. Having a low mileage car with original motor is usually bad news with a rotary...we all know rotary seals tend to stick when allowed to sit, and any car with low mileage must have sat a significant part of it's life...either a weekend driver, or a summertime driver.

The s4 block is not a direct bolt in, and mazda will not recognize that swap nor perform it for you, however it can be done. Now, I'm not recommending this, but if it's all you got, then go ahead. You have to change the front cover, by removing the s4 one and installing the s5 one. There are a couple of ways to screw this up, and a couple of nice writeups on mazdatrix' website covering those screwups. Keep the s4 flywheel and front counterweight. Now install all your s5 parts onto this block. You'll need an EGR blockoff plate. YOu'll need to do a bit of grinding on the s4 block's rear iron, the s5 intake hits it in a certain spot.

UtahRX

Thanks for all the info guys - really appreciate it.

As my S4 engine is approaching 150k (though I bought it new and KNOW it's been properly cared for), sounds like it may be smarter to go for the new engine in the S5.

Dealer quotes me $3600 installed, which I know is high.

There's not a single rotary shop within 100 miles of Salt Lake City, so the only non-dealer option is ordering a rebuild from Kevin. I'm reasonably adept mechanically with anything besides electronics, but still a little intimidated by removing and installing an engine. I've done a piston engine - is a rotary any more difficult? I'd imagine the short block would be tougher than a piston, thanks to the crazy control system, but not the long block???

Looks like with freight, it might be close to $2500 anyway . . .

Really hate to not fix the car. Last month I got a new windshield, new TPS (from Kevin, actually), new taillights, and a glass sunroof.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I should be able to do a stock block rebuild for you for around $1500 plus shipping each way, which would probably be about $140-150 each way. You'll get out way under 2 grand.

For help with removal and reinstallation, as well as teardown of the longblock, check out www.rotaryresurrection.com ---> tech. The link for s5 NA teardown is not working for some reason, but just refer to the s4, which is very similar...and you'll be able to figure out the minor electrical and hose routing differences of the s5 pretty easily, you get the idea of how to proceed from the s4 writeup.

jhammons01

Did you check it first???? Have you been able to check it yourself?? Buy some new plugs........first........you need them anyway if you do a new engine swap. Put them in, if it doesn't change anything put them back in their little box and place them in your garage for when your new short block comes.

UtahRX

Haven't had a chance yet, but I'm not optimistic because it wasn't that cold, probably 30 F, and my drive to and from work is substantial highway driving; I always reach regular temp.

But thanks for the suggestion. Definitely worth a shot before really dropping some cash!