arad99

iTrader: (2)

Has anybody checked the oil output of their OMP on an S4 T2? I tried doing it as described in the Haynes manual but after several minutes I still had no oil in the tube.
I was thinking maybe for the OMP to pump properly it had to be connected to a vacuum source like it is in normal operation.
My motor sat for 3-4 years before I bought the car and I just wanted to make sure the OMP had not failed.

arad99

iTrader: (2)

How does everybody confirm that the OMP is functioning properly?

HAILERS

I just pull two lines off the omp. With a fully hot engine I hold the rpms at 2000rpm while at the same time holding the omp rod full up at the throttle body. After the given time (five minutes) in the FSM, I turn the key off and measure the fluid collected from the omp line.

If you have the lines connected to the pump, and they are clear, just hold the engine speed at 2000rpm while holding the omp rod full up at the throttle. You should be able to see the oil ooooch up the line. Maybe a 1/8" oooch each time the oil moves in the line.

Why use a Haynes when the FSM is free online. It's the Real Deal.

After they fill up, and you turn the engine off, there's no check valve anywhere in the system to keep some of the oil from leaving the line. As in gravity. All lines should fill up after driving a fwy speeds for a half hour or a bit less.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

So, no check valve and AWS?

Nice.

HAILERS

AWS in the above just flew over my head. ??? Talking OMP lines and OMP.

arad99

iTrader: (2)

OK, I did just as you said and not one drop was in the container after the 5 minutes. I did have the have the control rod fully up. Evidently my OMP has stopped pumping.

HAILERS

Well, the next question should be: Has someone had your front cover off and reinstalled it? The OMP is fed oil from and approx 1/16" passaage in the Front Housing TO the front Cover. If someone has used RTV in lieu of a gasket on the front cover, or made his own gasket for the front cover, then he might have blocked off that 1/16"passage.


There's a jpg or two attached. I've got red lines on the front cover to show the path of the oil to the OMP. Then one jpg of the front HOUSING and the small hole that feeds the front cover and last a jpg of the side of the front cover where oil exits the cover TO the OMP. In that same area is a faily large hole where that oil ends up going back to the pan.

The OMP is a PUMP. The oil pressure in the path is virtually zippity at the OMP because of the large hole that dumps it back into the pan.

So if the front cover has not been removed/replace, and option is to REMOVE the OMP altogether and then start the engine. See if oil is coming out of the front cover to the OMP, at where the OMP mates with the front cover. IF oil does come out, then take the OMP apart to see what the deal is with the pump.

HAILERS

Freakin jpg's didn't show up.

In the jpg that shows the area where the OMP attaches, the RED hole is the OMP feed hole from the front cover and the Blue hole is where that oil is right away dumped back to the pan.

On the picture of the Front cover, the first jpg, you can see the small 1/16" hole on the Left of the Picture. IT's just to the left of the Red line I drew. Cover it up........ain't getting any oil to the OMP.

The LAST jpg of the front housing, has a small red line pointing to the oil outlet from the front housing to the front cover. It looked to be blocked with RTV to me, but the owner of the jpg says "ain't so".

There's no way to tell what your problem is from here/this computer.

HAILERS

Here's a jpg of the mating side of the OMP to the front cover. The area the oil enters is the kidney shaped area. Parts are missing from this OMP, so don't expect your to look exactly as this one.

The second jpg with all the colored lines is meant to show in BLUE, the kidney shaped area where the oil enters the OMP. Virtually no pressure there, but lots of fluid if the engine is turning over.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Accelerated Warmup System = 3000 rpm at startup

No check valve on the omp lines = dry startup. At 3000 rpm.

Nice. (sarcasm)

Maybe I will premix just a little in cold weather...

arad99

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for all the info Hailers. The cover was off. I just recently rebuilt the motor and it only has a couple of hours on it. But, luckily, I'm running premix. I read somewhere on the site that somebody suggested running premix for the for the first few hours just to be sure that all of the parts are getting oil. Sure saved my butt.

I'll pull the pump and start the motor to see if the oil passage is plugged.

HAILERS

Maybe you used RTV or the equiv on the front cover gasket and it plugged the feed hole on the front cover?

I don't think the lack of a OMP effected your engine. You most likely didn't have the engine under LOAD a lot after the rebuild. At light loads little oil is injected anyway. No damage done.

I've never myself, removed the omp and started the engine up. I assume all that will happen is oil will dribble out the front cover on the side the omp is/was bolted to. Write back as to what happens.

arad99

iTrader: (2)

I unbolted the OMP and started the motor. Nothing happened. Oil didn't come from any place. I let it run for about 60 - 75 seconds but I couldn't find evidence of oil.

So, I wonder, could I use compressed air to unplug the hole? I have a compressor. But, I think I'll wait until you write back before I proceed any further.

arad99

iTrader: (2)

Can I remove the front cover with the engine still in the car? Isn't there a spacer or needle bearing that will fall out of place if the front cover is removed without the motor being vertical.

HAILERS

That's really odd. I almost asked earlier if you have oil pressure on the oil pressure gauge...........but the engine would have frozen up by now if that was the case.

You have noting to lose by using the air hose and blower. Try to keep the air pressure under 80psi.

The passage must be blocked. IF you unblock it I've no idea where the blockage subsance will go. Got me.

You can remove the front cover with the engine in the car. I'd do a little Obstructional Removal when doing that. LIke remove the fan (four nuts) and the fan shoud. Battery gets removed to remove the shroud. You don't have to do these things, but you'd be surprised how much easier life is. Fact is I've done this front cover removal recently and I flat removed the fan shround, fan, water pump and Radiator itself. I like a lot of room and was in no hurry.

Front pulley nut..........craftsman hafl inch breakover with the 17mm socket. Lay the breakover bar against the left fender/structure or the air compressor if it's there. Then transmisson out of gear, EGI fuses pulled (in case it starts), then key to Start for a quick moment. The nut should come loose. Starter acts like a torque gun. Cost nothing (if you have a breakover bar already).

The hard part is removing the six or so bolts in the front of the pan that attach to the front cover. Not a lot of room to work there.

I THINK the water pump has to come off. I'm not sure. I removed mine when I did this and don't remember just why.

Before you take the front bolt out all the way, I believe THEY tell you to push the clutch in with a stick and leave the stick there. I've never done that myself. Look at it this way. Your taking the front cover off. Before you put the cover back on, you just look and make sure the torrington bearings are in place or not in place. I've never fudged up a front bearing in my life.

When you get the cover off, blow thru that small hole on the front cover and see if air come out the omp area or not.

arad99

iTrader: (2)

Hailers, thanks alot. I'm going to remove the cover probably Sunday. I'll let you know what I found.

BTW, good oil pressure, 85-90 lbs @3000, drops off a bit at idle, 30 lbs @1000.


I'll try blowing air through the hole before I start on the cover.

HAILERS

EDITED: I mistakenly wrote something in this space about removing the pan. You don't remove the pan to remove the front cover. Just the bolts at the front of the pan that mate with the front cover. When I wrote in this space about removing the pan...........I had my head stuck in a dark spot.

I've removed the original words in this space.

arad99

iTrader: (2)

I finally got around to blowing air into the oil outlet home for the OMP. Whatever was blocking the flow of oil was dislodged. whenever I start the motor now, oil drips out of the outlet hole. So I guess I won't have to take the cover off. I just hope whatever was blocking it doesn't find a way to block it again.

I sent for a rebuild kit for the OMP while I had it off. After the kit comes in, I'll put the OMP back on and make sure that the proper amount of oil is being delivered to the motor.

HAILERS

I'm not sure how much oil should come out. I've never had the OMP off the engine and run the engine at the same time. Someday I'll do that out of curiosity.