New setup supercharged and then some.
10-29-06, 11:57 PM
#1
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New setup supercharged and then some.
OK so i've been looking into the supercharged 13b n/a idea.
Sounds good. So heres my big plan. If there is a flaw someone let me know please.
Alright
Street port the motor
3mm apex seals.
550 primaries
750 secondaries.
free flowing headers.
Camden supercharger or similar.
ngk racing plugs
lightened and beveled rotors
Ignition setup??? What works best???
stand alone fuel management ( including fuel pump ect.)
What am I missing and what kind of power could I expect at the wheels?? Please help i'm looking at 7k to spend.
Sounds good. So heres my big plan. If there is a flaw someone let me know please.
Alright
Street port the motor
3mm apex seals.
550 primaries
750 secondaries.
free flowing headers.
Camden supercharger or similar.
ngk racing plugs
lightened and beveled rotors
Ignition setup??? What works best???
stand alone fuel management ( including fuel pump ect.)
What am I missing and what kind of power could I expect at the wheels?? Please help i'm looking at 7k to spend.
10-30-06, 12:05 AM
#2
3mm seals are not needed.
Lightened rotors are also overkill. They simply aren't worth the money except for a professional race car. The money can be put to better use elsewhere.
Racing plugs aren't needed either. Just use BUR9EQ's all around.
For ignition, just use whatever the standalone uses.
And for the supercharger itself, are you wanting a bolt on package, or are you looking at custom fabbing something up? If you want a package, the camden is about the only choice. If you want to custom fab something, I have heard that the twin-screw from the Millenia S (sp) is a very good design.
As for the power, the I think the camden setup said something like 250 to the wheels, but you can get more with the street port and maybe a diff pulley. It will have much more low-end torque, though, which will make it seem much more powerful on city streets than the peak power numbers suggest.
Lightened rotors are also overkill. They simply aren't worth the money except for a professional race car. The money can be put to better use elsewhere.
Racing plugs aren't needed either. Just use BUR9EQ's all around.
For ignition, just use whatever the standalone uses.
And for the supercharger itself, are you wanting a bolt on package, or are you looking at custom fabbing something up? If you want a package, the camden is about the only choice. If you want to custom fab something, I have heard that the twin-screw from the Millenia S (sp) is a very good design.
As for the power, the I think the camden setup said something like 250 to the wheels, but you can get more with the street port and maybe a diff pulley. It will have much more low-end torque, though, which will make it seem much more powerful on city streets than the peak power numbers suggest.
10-30-06, 01:12 AM
#3
camden kits put out less then 200WHP on stock ports, its an inefficient charger and a poorly designed lower intake manifold
the paxton/neilson kit made much more power, search for posts by pianoprodigy about superchargers
or ask SonicRat about his experiences
or search camden+piece of ****+inefficient+for sale
the paxton/neilson kit made much more power, search for posts by pianoprodigy about superchargers
or ask SonicRat about his experiences
or search camden+piece of ****+inefficient+for sale
10-30-06, 01:34 AM
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Well as for bolt on i am looking for what will give me the power I need and want. If bolt on will put 300+ to the wheels then it might be what I want however what I really would like is a design than can keep on going upwards of 500+ horsepower eventually. So some revisions already.
Stand alone ignitions system
non-racing plugs.
So far keeping the street port
Supercharger
same injectors still??
And hopefully a lot of power anything that I might be forgetting cause I would hate to tear into this and then end up short on a part that I need to finish the job and wait 2 weeks for shipment.
Stand alone ignitions system
non-racing plugs.
So far keeping the street port
Supercharger
same injectors still??
And hopefully a lot of power anything that I might be forgetting cause I would hate to tear into this and then end up short on a part that I need to finish the job and wait 2 weeks for shipment.
10-30-06, 02:39 AM
#5
for the fc... supercharging is definently far inferior to turbocharging! you always want bang for you buck... for the same amount of money, turbocharging will give you more power! and its alot easier to grow w/ a turbo.. thats why there are so few supercharged fc's around... they are a waste of money! and i dont think ive ever seen a 500+hp supercharged fc! theres a reason for that!
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10-30-06, 06:10 AM
#8
Boost in..Apex seals out.
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For 500whp, I'd think you would need two of those big turbo's the high-output Mustang's run..And run about 40psi. Your spool will be about equal to a turbo, oh and, you'll have to fab it all. And no room to grow. And..10x more money.
Turbo>Supercharger for the RX and most other cars on the planet..
Turbo>Supercharger for the RX and most other cars on the planet..
10-30-06, 08:43 AM
#9
Engine, Not Motor
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500 RWHP with a turbo is easy. Doing it reliably is a different question. 
As far as the supercharger goes, I think you are heading down the wrong road. A search in this forum for "supercharger" and "camden" will turn up both the Camden kit experiences and the opinions of those few who have made their own setup. Most have not turned out well.
As far as the supercharger goes, I think you are heading down the wrong road. A search in this forum for "supercharger" and "camden" will turn up both the Camden kit experiences and the opinions of those few who have made their own setup. Most have not turned out well.
10-30-06, 12:59 PM
#10
Originally Posted by adrock3217
For 500whp, I'd think you would need two of those big turbo's the high-output Mustang's run..And run about 40psi. Your spool will be about equal to a turbo, oh and, you'll have to fab it all. And no room to grow. And..10x more money.
Turbo>Supercharger for the RX and most other cars on the planet..
Turbo>Supercharger for the RX and most other cars on the planet..
like we said, 500rwhp w/ a turbo is pretty easy, just takes money (but less than a supercharger setup).. and there are quite a few of us out here who have already done it w/ a turbo, so if you have questions.. we are here.. but try finding ANY supercharged guys!
10-30-06, 01:13 PM
#12
If you want that much power and better response than a turbo then look into building your own 4 rotor engine and keep it na. The company that made diy 13bre is making one for a 26b engine, if that helps at all. If you are good at custom fabbing I bet you might be able to sqeeze by with 7k
10-30-06, 02:34 PM
#13
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guy serisouly, he was asking for help not crap about turbo's im about to install my turbo and i have pretty much the same idea except im also going with 90% water and 10% meth to help keep temps down. im am also researching to see if there is a way to fab up a twin screw to the camden kit.
10-31-06, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lupin
If you want that much power and better response than a turbo then look into building your own 4 rotor engine and keep it na. The company that made diy 13bre is making one for a 26b engine, if that helps at all. If you are good at custom fabbing I bet you might be able to sqeeze by with 7k
10-31-06, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by stevie1020
guy serisouly, he was asking for help not crap about turbo's im about to install my turbo and i have pretty much the same idea except im also going with 90% water and 10% meth to help keep temps down. im am also researching to see if there is a way to fab up a twin screw to the camden kit.
As for everyone else thanks for the info. What I have is an N/A motor looking for 400+ whp. Mentioned was a stock block with a t70?? turbo?? That may be the wrong one. Sorry If I missquote. That would be unsafe to run without enlarging water ports correct for cooling purposes. However Turbo may be the way to go, I am open to suggestions. Someone give me a setup that has worked and puts me at my goal if it's cheaper it could be worth it.
Thanks for all the help guys. However I like the idea of the low end torque and power a supercharger get me but if it won't let me get my power. I have to change plans.
10-31-06, 04:48 PM
#16
Originally Posted by vipers
how wrong you are.... my setup will give me 500+rwhp and all i have is a half-bridged motor w/ a t-70 turbo... look up slammedblkfc ... he is well over 600rwhp w/ a mp gt45! and he drives it on the street everyday!oh, and 40lbs of boost on a rotary is only seen on drag cars! try 20-25lbs... j-rat netted 433rwhp on a bone stock block w/ a descent turbo.... now hes porting a new motor, so he should be right there also!
like we said, 500rwhp w/ a turbo is pretty easy, just takes money (but less than a supercharger setup).. and there are quite a few of us out here who have already done it w/ a turbo, so if you have questions.. we are here.. but try finding ANY supercharged guys!
like we said, 500rwhp w/ a turbo is pretty easy, just takes money (but less than a supercharger setup).. and there are quite a few of us out here who have already done it w/ a turbo, so if you have questions.. we are here.. but try finding ANY supercharged guys!
Yes a turbo is the best way to net power at a lower cost. Also our exhaust roxxor so big turbos aren't hard to push.
My favorite point to turbo vs SC is that when you decide you want more hp.... You hit a button on a EBC or turn your MBC a few rotations and your done.
10-31-06, 05:02 PM
#17
Originally Posted by stevie1020
guy serisouly, he was asking for help not crap about turbo's
11-01-06, 09:22 AM
#18
Engine, Not Motor
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This topic hurts me...
Send me a cashier's cheque for $30,000 as a down payment, and I'll have a 4 rotor engine for you in a few months. Shipping included. In fact, I'll even deliver it personally.
Stop right there....Please.
You need to walk before you can run. If you intend on making large amounts of power, you have two choices:
1. Stick with the NA block
2. Use the TII block
I would recommend option #2 to you. The NA block is higher compression which will make tuning the car much more difficult for the beginner. You'll blow it up.
So start with a TII swap as documented in the FAQ. This means swapping the entire drivetrain from the TII to the NA car, essentially turning it into a TII. Drive that car for a while until you have some experience.
For 500 RWHP, you will need to rebuild the engine. Street port, water jacket mods, windowed bearings, raised oil pressure. If you start with an S5 block, you won't need to dowel it.
You'll need a full standalone running 800CC primary and 1600CC secondary injectors with the fuel pump to support it.
T70 should be fine, big front mount intercooler and all the accessories (BOV, manifold, wastegate, etc.).
So far we're about $20,000 into the project if you have to farm some of the labour out.
And if you don't know how to tune it, you'll blow it up and have to start again.
Originally Posted by Kickitinwashougal
how do I build a for rotor engine give me some specs and the mounting teqniquen and you might have an idea however I won't be applying it to this car, to my other one if I were to do it.
As for everyone else thanks for the info. What I have is an N/A motor looking for 400+ whp. Mentioned was a stock block with a t70?? turbo?? That may be the wrong one. Sorry If I missquote. That would be unsafe to run without enlarging water ports correct for cooling purposes. However Turbo may be the way to go, I am open to suggestions. Someone give me a setup that has worked and puts me at my goal if it's cheaper it could be worth it.
You need to walk before you can run. If you intend on making large amounts of power, you have two choices:
1. Stick with the NA block
2. Use the TII block
I would recommend option #2 to you. The NA block is higher compression which will make tuning the car much more difficult for the beginner. You'll blow it up.
So start with a TII swap as documented in the FAQ. This means swapping the entire drivetrain from the TII to the NA car, essentially turning it into a TII. Drive that car for a while until you have some experience.
For 500 RWHP, you will need to rebuild the engine. Street port, water jacket mods, windowed bearings, raised oil pressure. If you start with an S5 block, you won't need to dowel it.
You'll need a full standalone running 800CC primary and 1600CC secondary injectors with the fuel pump to support it.
T70 should be fine, big front mount intercooler and all the accessories (BOV, manifold, wastegate, etc.).
So far we're about $20,000 into the project if you have to farm some of the labour out.
And if you don't know how to tune it, you'll blow it up and have to start again.
11-01-06, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
This topic hurts me...
Send me a cashier's cheque for $30,000 as a down payment, and I'll have a 4 rotor engine for you in a few months. Shipping included. In fact, I'll even deliver it personally.
Stop right there....Please.
You need to walk before you can run. If you intend on making large amounts of power, you have two choices:
1. Stick with the NA block
2. Use the TII block
I would recommend option #2 to you. The NA block is higher compression which will make tuning the car much more difficult for the beginner. You'll blow it up.
So start with a TII swap as documented in the FAQ. This means swapping the entire drivetrain from the TII to the NA car, essentially turning it into a TII. Drive that car for a while until you have some experience.
For 500 RWHP, you will need to rebuild the engine. Street port, water jacket mods, windowed bearings, raised oil pressure. If you start with an S5 block, you won't need to dowel it.
You'll need a full standalone running 800CC primary and 1600CC secondary injectors with the fuel pump to support it.
T70 should be fine, big front mount intercooler and all the accessories (BOV, manifold, wastegate, etc.).
So far we're about $20,000 into the project if you have to farm some of the labour out.
And if you don't know how to tune it, you'll blow it up and have to start again.
Send me a cashier's cheque for $30,000 as a down payment, and I'll have a 4 rotor engine for you in a few months. Shipping included. In fact, I'll even deliver it personally.
Stop right there....Please.
You need to walk before you can run. If you intend on making large amounts of power, you have two choices:
1. Stick with the NA block
2. Use the TII block
I would recommend option #2 to you. The NA block is higher compression which will make tuning the car much more difficult for the beginner. You'll blow it up.
So start with a TII swap as documented in the FAQ. This means swapping the entire drivetrain from the TII to the NA car, essentially turning it into a TII. Drive that car for a while until you have some experience.
For 500 RWHP, you will need to rebuild the engine. Street port, water jacket mods, windowed bearings, raised oil pressure. If you start with an S5 block, you won't need to dowel it.
You'll need a full standalone running 800CC primary and 1600CC secondary injectors with the fuel pump to support it.
T70 should be fine, big front mount intercooler and all the accessories (BOV, manifold, wastegate, etc.).
So far we're about $20,000 into the project if you have to farm some of the labour out.
And if you don't know how to tune it, you'll blow it up and have to start again.
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