drakesword

Decided that i was going to use some mmo to clean the engine up b4 changing the oil. I got my gas down 2 1/4 of a tank and added 1 bottle of mmo then 1/2 a bottle to the oil. Drove home and let it set. Today i drove back to the gas station and went to fill her up when i noticed my card was left at home. Drove back home and was stalling and sputtering the entire way. Finally got home and i noticed a bit of smoke from the engine bay so i popped the hood.

To my horror i saw that there was oil everywhere. The dipstick ejected out of the tube and the oil followed. The engine was almost completely dry. Panicked i added 5 quarts of oil and added 5 gallons of gas. When i got it started again the dip stick launched out of the tube and the oil went all over the driveway and car.

I didnt think that there were oil seals that went into the oil pan but i could be wrong. This seems like i need a new engine now

ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Black Knight RX7 FC3S

iTrader: (7)

I didnt even think it was possible for the oil to backflow out the dipstick unless there was too much oil. And even then, since the oil sits kinda in its own compartment, and there is nothing sloshing the oil (like in a piston engine), even with the oil overfilled, it shouldnt backflow like that.

RX7Tuner.

What was the oil pressure on your way home?

drakesword

When i checked at 3k it was 45 psi.

Another update, there is a plactic culender next to the oil fill spout that had a vacuum line in it going to one of the metal tubes. The cap for this was in the driveway as well.

drakesword

It appears that in my hast i did put too much oil back in (~1 qt) still does not explain why it happened in the first place.

Other observations, Oil shot more then 30 ft from my car (the other cars at my house now need me to wash them) There appears to have had oil coing from the seals arround the o2 sensor (will replace soon). The oil that i drained out wasnt as clear as when it went in (as expected) but wasnt very dirty (i could still see through it) the plastic cap is still a mystery but im going to look through the FSM now. When the 7 was running there was smoke coming from the collector (or so it seemed like it)

drakesword

Even more information. . .

I was able to re attach the cap to the plastic cylinder thing. This time the hoses came off of it.

Oil spray near the exhaust but could not see any on the UIM.
At 4,500 rpm smoke starts barreling out of the engine bay from the spark side then stops when rpms drop below 4k.

Oil pressure at 4,500 rpm is ~50 psi.

After shutdown I removed the oil cap and smoke started rolling out (possibly from mmo). Tomorrow i will do a complete oil drain and change the filter.

Oil on 2nd cat heat shield either splash from road or exhaust leak.

car seems to want to stall below 2k rpm and sputters between 2.2k and 2.5k then smooths out then stutters again around 3.3k.

Starting is requiring me to do some fancy footwork and 3/4 times it will not start.

My theories at this point are whack but they are theories none the less. . .

1.) MMO cleaned the oil pan too good and a seal is no longer a seal.
2.) Pressure sensor is wrong and oil pressure regulator it siezed.
3.) MMO is being burned still in the oil.


But none of these theories have anything to do with the fact that my car cannon and will not stay running without my foot on the gas peddle.

THERE IS NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT COMING ON that is until the engine stalls

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

I'm thinking option 1 may be it. You may have hurt an oil control ring and it's bleading off pressure from the combustion side of the engine straight past the oil control rings which ultimately goes to the oil pan. If you pressurize this, this pressure is going to try to go somewhere and it's probably easiest to eject the dip stick and anything else standing in it's way. If this is what it is, it's bad and would require an engine rebuild. If this is in fact happening, since combustion pressures are bleeding off, it's going to be harder to keep the engine running.

Your oil pressure won't be affected at all by this as the drain side of the oil system, which is the non pressurized side, is being over run by combustion chamber pressure. This isn't the side of the oil system that your oil pressure gauge gets it's readings from.

RX7Tuner.

Why would bad oil control rings allow combustion gas into the pan? The apex/side/corner seals maintain compression.

A leaky oil control ring usually results in burning oil.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Oil control rings in the rotors separate the combustion chamber from the oil drain system, aka the oil pan as that's where the passages lead to. If oil can get past an oil control ring and past the side seals on the low pressure side of the engine, you bet gasses can go the opposite way through the same path on the high pressure side.

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

make sure your purge system is hooked up per the fsm

drakesword

Im thinking this plastic cylender thhing is probably the purge system. . . dont see it in the fsm though . . .

anywho this plastic thing has 3 hoses coming out of it. One on top and two on the bottom. One of the ones on the bottom goes to the oil fill spout and the other goes to a metal tube. The upper half appears to be a vacuum line aand it has a rubber diafram on it.

This little bugger was made in two halfs although now its broken into 3. Any ideas on what this is?

Next up there is another heaver hose going into the block below it this connection is loose and oil may be coming from it as well. The reason i do not know is that the engine will not stay running below 1500 rpms and i cant verywell hold my foot on the gas peddle and be at the front of the car.

The smoke i saw earlier coming from the driver side is not smoke at all it is oil mist meaning something is spraying oil.




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EDIT
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Just found that the cylinder is the purge valve. It wasn't in the lubrication section although it deals with oil. . .

Now where can I get a replacement. I'd like to avoid mazda if at all possible

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Try Mazdatrix. They've got everything. Hopefully that's all it is.

drakesword

no part at mazdatrix. Mazda is $63 without shipping. Would a purge valve from other cars work or is that idea ridiculous?

NotTTT

Classifieds

When I first read this without knowing about the purge sysem malfunction, my first thought was fragged oil control ring. Even without a purge system and just having the crankcase vented to atmosphere, I never blew a dipstick out.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Its the PCV valve. (positive crankcase ventilation)

It allows any excess pressure in the "crankcase" to be vented out by being sucked in by engine vaccum.

That said - even with everything capped off, a good running engine shouldn't have enough pressure in there to blow the dipstick right out and shoot oil everywhere.

My take:

Failing control rings/aging engine allows tonnes of pressure in the crank case--->overwhelms the PCV----> it breaks -------> dipstick shoots out.

Or something.

FWIW, a freshly rebuilt engine running with no PCV valve or any hoses attached to that nipple on the center iron...while idling and lightly revving....shouldn't exhibit any VISBILE oil puffing from there. If its a good, tight engine that is............at least, thats what I've experienced. **** rebuilds, worn engines will puff puff puff out of there.

And chances are its not going to idle well until you fix the PCV because it has vac lines running to it, they're probably leaking right now.

Go48

iTrader: (7)

Try Trussville Mazda parts in Alabama (800-633-8285). They may be able to beat that price. Otherwise, you can post a WTB in the Classified section of this forum or try eBay.

drakesword

Thanks guys but there are still more issues at hand.

First off the engine only has 35k on it and ive been taking good care of it.

Second off there are still other leaks. I traced one from a small line going into the block and another to the oil pedistol

Next there is still the problem with starting and running the engine, it appears that there is a great amount of oil being burnt from the engine as it sends large quantities of white smoke out the tail pipe.

Im looking at the possibility of picking up another 7 with an overheating problem and getting that running (cooling problems are simpler then what i am dealing with here).

Also someone once mentioned there is a rotary rebuild shop in colonial heights but never mentioned a name . . . anyone know of this?

WingsofWar

White smoke = water/coolant burning

Blue smoke = oil burning

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

normally you would just put a few drops right into the rotors, turn it over a few times and let it sit, I was not aware people were pouring bottles of it into thier gas?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

You had a rebuild performed yourself 35,000miles ago? Or bought it with a "low mileage rebuild".

I just see alot of people who sell these cars as rebuilt with little/fake actual proof, or they bought it from someone who bought it from somebody who had it rebuilt.......very few actually have solid documentation.


Awesome, good job finding the leaks - now take the parts off and reseal them so they don't

As said, white smoke is typically coolant....but that may be from the excessive MMO in the fuel also. Unless that tank of gas has run through?

If its having trouble running at the proper temp - it MAY be an easy fix. If it has a problem because its overheated - then you're no better off then now as either car may require a rebuild.

Can't help you there

First thing - fix the leaks. Including any vac leaks. Its not going to run correctly on the stock ECU until they're fixed, and thats going to cause you to chase other problems that may not exist.

Do those first, get the PCV and hook it up properly, then see what happens. If it blows the dip stick out again, get ready to pull the engine.

EDIT: And although MMO likely didn't cause the issues you're facing (directly) I would stay well away from that junk. If you want premix - get some premix and go wild. If you want clean oil, change it. End-all, fix-all additives like that bug the **** out of me.....

drakesword

engine was replaced by mazda 35k miles ago.

At this point im hopefully going to be able to take the bad boy over to a retired mechanic friend of mine who does have experience with rotaries

As far as the use of mmo goes I was using it to clean not to premix, i have outboard motor oil for that. I was about to do a full tune up for the coming spring (oil, oil filter, coolant, fuel filters, air filter, belts, plugs and timing) Basicly, instead of runnning the MMO through a vacuum line i put it in the 2 gallons of gas left in my tank.

Is the PCV valve really necessary in the short run the vacuum leak can be stopped with a nail and zip tie.

What is still a mystery is the location of the big leak. ATM it only shows up at 5k rpm.

Next the engine starts but doesnt seem to have power and the smoke is bluish not white and sweet.

The oil on the O2 sensor came from the charcoal canister. So somehow oil was still blowing up to that level still not sure how.

The other car was not overheated just temps started to rise beyond their comfort level. and one of the terms of buying the car is inspecting the engine for compression and coolant leaks.

Can i use a PCV from other vehicle makes to make it work right or is it not worth it?

NotTTT

+ a lot

More details than that are needed

White smoke is coolant. If your burning oil, see my original theory - you fragged an oil control ring with your wonder mystery product.

So instead of fixing the problem you have you junk the car and buy one with an entirely new set of problems? Sounds like a waste of money

Yeah, what he said

Sounds like a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF COMBUSTION PRESSURE IS GETTING INTO THE SUMP

Seriously? That is about the most hack/ghetto thing I've EVER heard.... then again.... mmo in the gas?

drakesword

please read my other posts, is case you didn't read them ill reiterate . . .

I was about to do a full tune up including changing the oil plugs coolant filters and such . . .
I put a bit of mmo in the oil to clean up carbon buildup a day before changing my oil
I put mmo in the gas a day before changing the fuel filter and cleaning the fuel pump sock

Also, the "ghetto" fix would be temporary until I could get the part from mazda, which from my past experience takes about 6 weeks to deliver a single gasket. Because the 7 IS my DD i need a replacement car where the other 7 comes in. ive been planning on getting another 7 for autocross and this one would be a DD till my current one is running right.



I feel that its better to do as much cleaning as possible before replacing such components so the new ones don't get clogged with old crap.

Irregardless of the mmo (which is supposed to be added to oil and gas rater then by vacuum that most people do) I am having problems with my DD and need to get it fixed ASAP. If you want to be jerks about my theories then fine but it isn't helping.

Because I have run out of sources of information and time i will now have to take the 7 to a mechanic. Although I would rather fix the problem myself I do not have the ability top do so at this time.

Ive been trying to post as much detail as possible but I understand that sometimes that is not enough.
The hose I speak of is a black rubber hose which one end leads into the block under the PCV. the other end goes into a metal tube which follows the firewall. This tube, on my engine, passes behind the oil filter and appears to have another tube around it for insulation.

As far as the oil leaks go my current process is to shove a bunch of paper towels down next to the engine, start it up, then when i stop check to see which towels have oil to determine direction and repeat. This method revealed the PCV leak and possibly the filter leak.

My next step is to remove the spark plug wires, degreasing, and looking again. (Its hard to see a leak when everything is covered in oil.) Also i will do a complete(or mostly complete the oil cooler would be a pain) drain and refill as well as replacing the filter while inspecting the pedistol.

So far the only answer I have iseen is that my oil seals are blown which one person claims would not cause my problem. If anyone has other ideas post them I am all ears at this point.

Again, thanks to thoes who have helped . . .

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

The only explanation that I can find that explains your oil pan being so pressurized that the dipstick got ejected and oil sprayed everywhere is that an oil seal must be bad and combustion or exhaust side pressure is bleeding past. There is nothing else that can do this. It's either that or you have a turbo or a supercharger blowing directly into your oil pan rather than your intake which I find highly unlikely. I can't think of anything else it can possibly be.

How much mmo did you use to how much gasoline? Marvel recommends 1 oz for every 2-1/2 gallons of gasoline.

drakesword

This is a new explanation and it is probbable as there was a recent cat gutting that happened and many backfires have been happening sence. Where and what do I look for in this case?

And i used 12 oz in 6 gallons . . ran 3 through then refilled to top so yea a little much but still not as bad as running it through the vacuum line.