Miata Cluster Swap
02-01-12, 01:21 PM
#102
Bit more info.
I've now scavenged over twenty different red needles from a variety of cars and have only matched the speedo so far.
The needle shafts are different sizes (for some unknowable reason), the tach being smaller.
This is proving troublesome.
A better bit of info.
Fords from the mid nineties ALL use the same style connector as the Miata cluster.
Taurii, trucks, Mustangs...even Mercury. I just snagged the elusive small center connector from a 95 Contour.
If you buy a cluster and don't get pigtails, a trip to a yard should fix you right up.
It's a lot easier to find a Ford to scavenge than a Miata.
I've now scavenged over twenty different red needles from a variety of cars and have only matched the speedo so far.
The needle shafts are different sizes (for some unknowable reason), the tach being smaller.
This is proving troublesome.
A better bit of info.
Fords from the mid nineties ALL use the same style connector as the Miata cluster.
Taurii, trucks, Mustangs...even Mercury. I just snagged the elusive small center connector from a 95 Contour.
If you buy a cluster and don't get pigtails, a trip to a yard should fix you right up.
It's a lot easier to find a Ford to scavenge than a Miata.
02-03-12, 07:02 AM
#103
Because our dials are not backlit, the graphics are all printed on the face.
All three stock clusters I have suffer from faded orange graphics (possibly UV degradation?)...everything is legible but fuzzy and poorly defined.
There is really no comparison between the FC and Miata clusters when it comes down to legibility.
For the last five years my illumination dimmer has been maxxed out, I was able to dim the Miata and still see it well.
Internally lit dials/needles are the bomb.
02-05-12, 03:11 AM
#106
Constructive Criticism, ideas from Mazda's basement and a photoshop request
Clokkar has done an amazing job with the Miata cluster swaps, especially with the electronics to make them behave correctly.
All things considered, I gotta agree with distr0 about the choice of a Miata cluster. It's too curvy and doesn't fit the angles of the FC well in that respect. Plus, it reminds me of every homogenized ZZE110 Corolla in that it lacks character. And just like their cars, nearly every ZZE110 Corolla owner is a mindless ipod-tethered drone too.
What sets our cars apart on the inside is the cluster clearly has the tachometer as the main focal point and the graphics are orange like an oldschool monochrome monitor. Plus, in the era of bland, tasteless FWD slushboxes like the ZZE110 Corolla, the FC is the Emmet Brown of the car world.
Like the interior trim in a FC, the gauges' only flaw is age and what results because of age. Curing this with ingenuity and a different cluster does the trick, but I feel that there are more fitting choices for such a unique car. Have you considered trying an oldschool digital cluster, such as one from a Z31 300ZX, MA60 or MA70 Supra or other 80s/90s 'dawn-of-digital' car?
To get you on the right track, I'm including a couple pictures from the MX-03, an early concept prototype for the Eunos Cosmo circa 1985:
Take a close look at the cluster and dashboard:
The display near the shifter (for Torque Split in this case) is dark when off, bright when on. Heavily-laquered lexan cover with bright LEDs behind the gauge faces. This technique was used on the FC's cruise control switch and later for the Cosmo's gauge lights and indicators so they 'disappear' when the car is not on and 'wake up' with the engine when you turn the key. Really makes the interior look clean, slick and uncluttered.
And a detail shot of the cluster:
Once again, every element is slick, retro and period-fitting.
To blend these ideas with the FC's interior might be a challenge, but it can be done well just by looking at the colors. The MX-03's interior fonts are predominantly yellow with green gauges and orange for the transmission indicator & odometer/tripmeter, while they are orange-red on the FC.
It might help if someone color-keyed everything via photoshop in the FC's interior colors and blend each element into the car. I would, but I suck at picture editing. Any photoshop geniuses out there that want to give it a try?
All things considered, I gotta agree with distr0 about the choice of a Miata cluster. It's too curvy and doesn't fit the angles of the FC well in that respect. Plus, it reminds me of every homogenized ZZE110 Corolla in that it lacks character. And just like their cars, nearly every ZZE110 Corolla owner is a mindless ipod-tethered drone too.
What sets our cars apart on the inside is the cluster clearly has the tachometer as the main focal point and the graphics are orange like an oldschool monochrome monitor. Plus, in the era of bland, tasteless FWD slushboxes like the ZZE110 Corolla, the FC is the Emmet Brown of the car world.
Like the interior trim in a FC, the gauges' only flaw is age and what results because of age. Curing this with ingenuity and a different cluster does the trick, but I feel that there are more fitting choices for such a unique car. Have you considered trying an oldschool digital cluster, such as one from a Z31 300ZX, MA60 or MA70 Supra or other 80s/90s 'dawn-of-digital' car?
To get you on the right track, I'm including a couple pictures from the MX-03, an early concept prototype for the Eunos Cosmo circa 1985:
Take a close look at the cluster and dashboard:
The display near the shifter (for Torque Split in this case) is dark when off, bright when on. Heavily-laquered lexan cover with bright LEDs behind the gauge faces. This technique was used on the FC's cruise control switch and later for the Cosmo's gauge lights and indicators so they 'disappear' when the car is not on and 'wake up' with the engine when you turn the key. Really makes the interior look clean, slick and uncluttered.
And a detail shot of the cluster:
Once again, every element is slick, retro and period-fitting.
To blend these ideas with the FC's interior might be a challenge, but it can be done well just by looking at the colors. The MX-03's interior fonts are predominantly yellow with green gauges and orange for the transmission indicator & odometer/tripmeter, while they are orange-red on the FC.
It might help if someone color-keyed everything via photoshop in the FC's interior colors and blend each element into the car. I would, but I suck at picture editing. Any photoshop geniuses out there that want to give it a try?
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 02-05-12 at 03:15 AM. Reason: MX-03 is 4WD, display & rheostat knob near shifter is to control the center diff's Torque Split
02-05-12, 07:39 AM
#107
Clokkar has done an amazing job with the Miata cluster swaps, especially with the electronics to make them behave correctly.
Thank you.
All things considered, I gotta agree with distr0 about the choice of a Miata cluster. It's too curvy and doesn't fit the angles of the FC well in that respect. Plus, it reminds me of every homogenized ZZE110 Corolla in that it lacks character. And just like their cars, nearly every ZZE110 Corolla owner is a mindless ipod-tethered drone too.
Well, here's where we begin to digress.
The design language of the late seventies/early eighties (from which the FC sprung) was defined by the ruler. Straight and boxy was the name of the game.
Our dash is essentially a mashup of rectangles and straight lines and the instrument cluster reflects this...it's a long, low rectangle.
Since nobody then- or now- uses a bastardized joystick/aircraft style steering yoke, Mazda put a regular steering wheel over the instrument cluster and hoped for the best. Even stock, gauges are obscured and the problem worsens if you replace the "schoolbus" size steering wheel with a sportier (read: smaller) part.
The FC cluster makes perfect sense until you frame it through a steering wheel.
What sets our cars apart on the inside is the cluster clearly has the tachometer as the main focal point and the graphics are orange like an oldschool monochrome monitor. Plus, in the era of bland, tasteless FWD slushboxes like the ZZE110 Corolla, the FC is the Emmet Brown of the car world.
Do you still use an oldschool monochrome computer monitor?
If your brief was to evaluate color versus nighttime legibility, would black/orange be your first choice?
Does the prominent tach really define the "sport" nature of the car?
I granny drive my car and listen to more than watch for RPMs, Karack claims to beat on his constantly yet never watch the tach...so why is the tach featured so prominently? What good is it doing you?
You have twice mentioned -disparagingly, I might add- the Corolla, using it as the antithesis of the FC, but as utilitarian/pedestrian as it may be, the Corolla was imminently practical and functional. Toyota didn't obscure their gauges, did they?
Like the interior trim in a FC, the gauges' only flaw is age and what results because of age. Curing this with ingenuity and a different cluster does the trick, but I feel that there are more fitting choices for such a unique car. Have you considered trying an oldschool digital cluster, such as one from a Z31 300ZX, MA60 or MA70 Supra or other 80s/90s 'dawn-of-digital' car?
This is the crux of the matter.
You think the "only flaw" is age related, I think the design was flawed from the blank page.
The hair on my neck tingled and I got goosebumps when you invoked the digital cluster out of the 300ZX, possibly the most nightmare inducing display I've ever personally experienced. My Dad owned one and after years of (occasional) drives, I still had to actively study the dash just to see my speed...it was a nightmare to read.
On top of our already flaky switchgear (go ahead, anyone want to defend the light or wiper switches?) you want to add a giant slab of flaky eighties electronics in the form of the Nissan digital cluster?
A cluster by the way, that was notoriously failure prone even when new.
To get you on the right track, I'm including a couple pictures from the MX-03, an early concept prototype for the Eunos Cosmo circa 1985...
Thank you.
All things considered, I gotta agree with distr0 about the choice of a Miata cluster. It's too curvy and doesn't fit the angles of the FC well in that respect. Plus, it reminds me of every homogenized ZZE110 Corolla in that it lacks character. And just like their cars, nearly every ZZE110 Corolla owner is a mindless ipod-tethered drone too.
Well, here's where we begin to digress.
The design language of the late seventies/early eighties (from which the FC sprung) was defined by the ruler. Straight and boxy was the name of the game.
Our dash is essentially a mashup of rectangles and straight lines and the instrument cluster reflects this...it's a long, low rectangle.
Since nobody then- or now- uses a bastardized joystick/aircraft style steering yoke, Mazda put a regular steering wheel over the instrument cluster and hoped for the best. Even stock, gauges are obscured and the problem worsens if you replace the "schoolbus" size steering wheel with a sportier (read: smaller) part.
The FC cluster makes perfect sense until you frame it through a steering wheel.
What sets our cars apart on the inside is the cluster clearly has the tachometer as the main focal point and the graphics are orange like an oldschool monochrome monitor. Plus, in the era of bland, tasteless FWD slushboxes like the ZZE110 Corolla, the FC is the Emmet Brown of the car world.
Do you still use an oldschool monochrome computer monitor?
If your brief was to evaluate color versus nighttime legibility, would black/orange be your first choice?
Does the prominent tach really define the "sport" nature of the car?
I granny drive my car and listen to more than watch for RPMs, Karack claims to beat on his constantly yet never watch the tach...so why is the tach featured so prominently? What good is it doing you?
You have twice mentioned -disparagingly, I might add- the Corolla, using it as the antithesis of the FC, but as utilitarian/pedestrian as it may be, the Corolla was imminently practical and functional. Toyota didn't obscure their gauges, did they?
Like the interior trim in a FC, the gauges' only flaw is age and what results because of age. Curing this with ingenuity and a different cluster does the trick, but I feel that there are more fitting choices for such a unique car. Have you considered trying an oldschool digital cluster, such as one from a Z31 300ZX, MA60 or MA70 Supra or other 80s/90s 'dawn-of-digital' car?
This is the crux of the matter.
You think the "only flaw" is age related, I think the design was flawed from the blank page.
The hair on my neck tingled and I got goosebumps when you invoked the digital cluster out of the 300ZX, possibly the most nightmare inducing display I've ever personally experienced. My Dad owned one and after years of (occasional) drives, I still had to actively study the dash just to see my speed...it was a nightmare to read.
On top of our already flaky switchgear (go ahead, anyone want to defend the light or wiper switches?) you want to add a giant slab of flaky eighties electronics in the form of the Nissan digital cluster?
A cluster by the way, that was notoriously failure prone even when new.
To get you on the right track, I'm including a couple pictures from the MX-03, an early concept prototype for the Eunos Cosmo circa 1985...
I spend a lot of time conceptualizing and working out the logic behind these mods, the technical aspects are just dross and it's refreshing to engage on a more theoretical plane.
I'd like to see an effort such as you describe, it just won't be me doing it.
I indulge my own quirks and sensibilities, what you are after contradicts most of my base parameters.
02-05-12, 12:24 PM
#108
if you want to attempt a heads up display, many '04 and newer Cadillac Devilles had them and they are probably pretty easy to find soon in wrecking yards because those cars take a huge dive in value over the years and are virtually worthless in just 10 years time. some earlier caddy's had them too but it's been over 10 years since i worked for cadillac, i just know they are one of the first luxury cars to hit the cheapo wreckers..
not like we're going to find a cosmo sitting in a wrecking yard or anything.
by heads up i mean the reflective digital speedo off the windshield. but i'm sure that is a huge endeavor to use the dash controller from that vehicle, it is OBD3 and gets info direct from the rest of the car. not likely going to work without tons of work or an induvidual controller for just the projector.
not like we're going to find a cosmo sitting in a wrecking yard or anything.
by heads up i mean the reflective digital speedo off the windshield. but i'm sure that is a huge endeavor to use the dash controller from that vehicle, it is OBD3 and gets info direct from the rest of the car. not likely going to work without tons of work or an induvidual controller for just the projector.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-05-12 at 12:29 PM.
02-06-12, 12:52 AM
#109
Clokkar, as I said in my first post, you've done an amazing job at approaching the issues correctly. But it seems like some of the car's character is lost with a miata cluster. The main reason why the tachometer is so prominent in a rotary car is because it is THE MOST IMPORTANT gauge. Every other gauge's reading is used in conjunction with the tachometer to diagnose all maladies.
In regard to the Corolla, I've always considered the AE86 to be a great car. It is simple, effective, gets the job done and is easy to diagnose as most had manual transmissions. I don't know exact numbers, but I do know that in the states, only the SR-5 models had an option for an automatic.
In contrast, I've never seen a ZZE110 with a manual transmission, a tachometer was optional (should be standard equipment on EVERY car), they're a PITA to deal with, and just have way too much extra bullshit like a self-destructing 1ZZ-FE engine, all for the 'then-I-got-high' generation...
And then Toyota came out with the Prius. Every time I see one, I hiss like a cat because I hate them and their yuppie green bullshit. Prius is the antithesis of the FC, and the ZZE110 Corolla is the toadie of the Prius. The "Just One Calorie" Prius
As for nighttime visibility, I've always been happy with the Orange-Red display on my S4. For those with weaker nightvision, perhaps replacing the backlighting system with some EL sheet would help? Might be a tad difficult to package the inverter inside the cluster, but there's bound to be a way to pull it off and maintain the stock rheostat's function.
Since a smaller wheel apparently obscures the top of the tachometer, reworking the gauges seems like a good fix, but the cluster you've selected doesn't seem to 'fit' the car's late-1980s personality very well. And yes, I'm well aware of the Z31's perpetual state of catastrophic electrical failure, especially in the digital cluster. Since it is also a late-1980s car, I mentioned it to give you a waypoint to work from in designing a cluster to suit the car. Of course, the Z31 cluster doesn't have the rotary 'character' either, but it is a step in the right direction style-wise.
You might want to take a second look at the MX-03's interior, along with the JC Cosmo to get an idea of what would correct the steering wheel visibility problem, have fitting late 1980s styling, suitable day/night visibility and still have the inherent character that is a rotary car.
A couple years ago, I messed around with designing a digital cluster in Kolourpaint for the FC, with the aforementioned criteria. But each design I came up with lacked that special rotary character.
As soon as I figure out how to draw in vectors, I'll come up with something...
In regard to the Corolla, I've always considered the AE86 to be a great car. It is simple, effective, gets the job done and is easy to diagnose as most had manual transmissions. I don't know exact numbers, but I do know that in the states, only the SR-5 models had an option for an automatic.
In contrast, I've never seen a ZZE110 with a manual transmission, a tachometer was optional (should be standard equipment on EVERY car), they're a PITA to deal with, and just have way too much extra bullshit like a self-destructing 1ZZ-FE engine, all for the 'then-I-got-high' generation...
And then Toyota came out with the Prius. Every time I see one, I hiss like a cat because I hate them and their yuppie green bullshit. Prius is the antithesis of the FC, and the ZZE110 Corolla is the toadie of the Prius. The "Just One Calorie" Prius
As for nighttime visibility, I've always been happy with the Orange-Red display on my S4. For those with weaker nightvision, perhaps replacing the backlighting system with some EL sheet would help? Might be a tad difficult to package the inverter inside the cluster, but there's bound to be a way to pull it off and maintain the stock rheostat's function.
Since a smaller wheel apparently obscures the top of the tachometer, reworking the gauges seems like a good fix, but the cluster you've selected doesn't seem to 'fit' the car's late-1980s personality very well. And yes, I'm well aware of the Z31's perpetual state of catastrophic electrical failure, especially in the digital cluster. Since it is also a late-1980s car, I mentioned it to give you a waypoint to work from in designing a cluster to suit the car. Of course, the Z31 cluster doesn't have the rotary 'character' either, but it is a step in the right direction style-wise.
You might want to take a second look at the MX-03's interior, along with the JC Cosmo to get an idea of what would correct the steering wheel visibility problem, have fitting late 1980s styling, suitable day/night visibility and still have the inherent character that is a rotary car.
A couple years ago, I messed around with designing a digital cluster in Kolourpaint for the FC, with the aforementioned criteria. But each design I came up with lacked that special rotary character.
As soon as I figure out how to draw in vectors, I'll come up with something...
02-06-12, 07:22 AM
#110
I've always been happy with the Orange-Red display on my S4. For those with weaker nightvision, perhaps replacing the backlighting system with some EL sheet would help? Might be a tad difficult to package the inverter inside the cluster, but there's bound to be a way to pull it off and maintain the stock rheostat's function.
The FC really doesn't have "backlighting" to speak of...it's primary light source is frontlighting.
Therefore neither the needles nor the dials themselves would benefit from an internal EL sheet.
Since a smaller wheel apparently obscures the top of the tachometer, reworking the gauges seems like a good fix, but the cluster you've selected doesn't seem to 'fit' the car's late-1980s personality very well.
The FC really doesn't have "backlighting" to speak of...it's primary light source is frontlighting.
Therefore neither the needles nor the dials themselves would benefit from an internal EL sheet.
Since a smaller wheel apparently obscures the top of the tachometer, reworking the gauges seems like a good fix, but the cluster you've selected doesn't seem to 'fit' the car's late-1980s personality very well.
You keep referring to the "character/personality" of the car, perhaps you could provide a more specific definition besides "the Miata cluster ain't it".
You also seem to be romanticizing the project.
I admit that "character " was not a prime concern when I began...I wanted a cheap OEM cluster that would fit the space and was legible when installed.
And could be made workable.
If you took a hundred people, gave them a sheet of paper and instructed them to draw a gauge panel with two large displays and a couple of sub-displays, how many would lay it out symmetrically (like the Miata) and how many would push the large gauges to the side and clump the others together?
The symmetry of the Miata layout is (I would posit) naturally more pleasing and the first choice given the parameters.
A variation from the simplicity would be the result of a conscious effort at "design" and you want to call this design a defining character.
If you're driving down a 35MPH road with a cop on your tail, is the tach still your most important display?
If you're driving through Death Valley, is the tach more important than the water temp?
If you're screaming down Road Atlanta's back straight approaching the bridge, are you looking at the gauges at all or at the road that's trying to kill you?
Why is the tach so important that it defines the FC?
02-06-12, 08:59 AM
#111
The centralized tachometer was a rotary staple all the way through the RX-8. So, whether the reason for it can be defended or not, there is tradition there.
That being said, I can see how anyone with less than perfect vision has troubles with the FC cluster at night. It is slightly blurry. As far as obscuring gauges, my seating position must be what they had in mind, as I have always been able to see the cluster unobstructed. The S5 gauges are extremely susceptible to fading, they look pinkish over time and is one of the reasons I'm still batting around ideas for my gauge cluster.
I've seen far more objectionable things done to FCs over the years, this is small potatoes compared to some of the dumb things that have been done. It's his car, he can do what he pleases.
That being said, I can see how anyone with less than perfect vision has troubles with the FC cluster at night. It is slightly blurry. As far as obscuring gauges, my seating position must be what they had in mind, as I have always been able to see the cluster unobstructed. The S5 gauges are extremely susceptible to fading, they look pinkish over time and is one of the reasons I'm still batting around ideas for my gauge cluster.
I've seen far more objectionable things done to FCs over the years, this is small potatoes compared to some of the dumb things that have been done. It's his car, he can do what he pleases.
02-06-12, 10:07 AM
#112
Wouldn't a plain panel with a centered 6" Autometer tach be the ultimate expression of this "tradition"?
Aren't DTSS and skinny 16" wheels part of the FC character?...no one seems in a hurry to defend their continued existence.
I admit that the centered tach never struck me as an important design key, so I ignored it in my search.
A quick browse through Google images brings up this:
...which I'm assuming more closely hews to the purist ethos...right?
No question about it, those Ferrari gauges look sweet and viewed as a standalone part, I have no complaint.
I'm ignoring the fact that I doubt it's even possible to retrofit them due to the electronics...
Put them into the FC dash however and things get jarring in a hurry, I think.
Besides my quibbles with the stock cluster's layout, I was also interested in addressing the poor performance of the gauges themselves.
The lighting is bad and cannot easily be fixed.
The mechanical speedo cannot be adjusted to compensate for gearing/tire changes.
The S5 water temp gauge is a dummy.
The Miata cluster (with the VDO mod) addresses all of the above.
So would a nice grouping of new Speedhut gauges on a sheet of carbon fiber.
At approximately 7-8 times the cost (no telling what Ferrari gauges go for on eBay).
I did not undertake this project lightly...I spent years installing aftermarket gauges all over my interior.
I spent a lot of time studying the FC cluster before deciding it had too many disadvantages construction-wise to make modification realistic.
(The pics I've seen of those nice Japanese modded clusters show that it can be done...but look at the price, it's obviously not easy)
What will you purists be doing as your clusters continue to fade and dim?
02-06-12, 11:11 AM
#113
The centralized tachometer was a rotary staple all the way through the RX-8. So, whether the reason for it can be defended or not, there is tradition there.
That being said, I can see how anyone with less than perfect vision has troubles with the FC cluster at night. It is slightly blurry. As far as obscuring gauges, my seating position must be what they had in mind, as I have always been able to see the cluster unobstructed. The S5 gauges are extremely susceptible to fading, they look pinkish over time and is one of the reasons I'm still batting around ideas for my gauge cluster.
I've seen far more objectionable things done to FCs over the years, this is small potatoes compared to some of the dumb things that have been done. It's his car, he can do what he pleases.
That being said, I can see how anyone with less than perfect vision has troubles with the FC cluster at night. It is slightly blurry. As far as obscuring gauges, my seating position must be what they had in mind, as I have always been able to see the cluster unobstructed. The S5 gauges are extremely susceptible to fading, they look pinkish over time and is one of the reasons I'm still batting around ideas for my gauge cluster.
I've seen far more objectionable things done to FCs over the years, this is small potatoes compared to some of the dumb things that have been done. It's his car, he can do what he pleases.
To address the question about why the tachometer is so prominent, it is the most vital gauge, when used in conjunction with the other gauges. For example, let's take a bone-stock S4T2 and give it a freer-flowing exhaust. The result is boost creep that gets worse as you rev higher.
When diagnosing overheating, you look at the temperature gauge versus the tachometer to find out what driving conditions are making it overheat. Pretty sure Mazda knew early on that anything with a Rotary Engine was not going to be a soccer-mom car. In regard to the FC specifically, its gauge arrangement is pretty smartly done because you can compare gauge readings with each other with only a glance.
When looking at the cluster, my left eye naturally goes to the tachometer and my right eye to the speedometer. When I shift my eyes over, left eye focuses on the Left Quad (Oil Pressure, Temperature, Voltage & Fuel) and my right eye focuses on the tachometer. This arrangement ensures that the tachometer is always within immediate focus when comparing readings with any of the other gauges.
As for the illumination, pull a cluster and look at the back. I believe there are 6 bulb holders and two or three transparent light spreaders under the gauge faces, which is why I called it backlighting, IE light source from behind the object in question. Most 80s/90s cars are like this and reworking it to utilize EL sheet would be pretty easy. Secure the inverter in a suitable location, wire into any of the illumination traces (might use a bulb holder for this) and cut the EL sheet to shape using the gauge faces as a template.
I've dabbled around inside gauge clusters belonging to the Evo 1-3 family of Mirages and looked into doing an EL lighting conversion on it years ago to fix the lighting flaws brought out by the new faces I scribed out in MSpaint. The construction appears nearly identical to the Miata one Clokkar used and I'd bet my FC that it was made by Yazaki Meter, the gauge division of Yazaki Corporation (whom made the FC's harnesses). Look on the stock gauge face's edges and you'll see a scalene triangle along with the words "YAZAKI METER"
Anyway, there's probably plenty of room inside the cluster's shell to pack a small 12v inverter (same size as a normal bosch-type relay) and secure some EL sheet directly behind the gauge faces. As for faded original gauge faces, there's a solution for that too: Take careful measurements from the originals and draw some new ones in your favorite vector drawing program, so you can re-scale it to account for measurement errors. I'm doing the stock S4 gauges right now.
02-12-12, 08:15 AM
#115
Small update...
I've switched from the FD steering wheel (same diameter as stock but thicker rim) to a 350mm Momo (about as small as I can stand) and all gauges remain visible.
The lighting is great.
I've made only half-assed attempts at the cosmetic integration- and done nothing about the VDO install, primarily because I'm considering radically expanding the scope of the project.
Here are two new clusters I'm looking at:
The second, smaller pic shows the Firebird gauges with white dials. These are aftermarket overlays, the cluster comes with black dials...which is what I'd want, I just couldn't find a good pic of it.
Both feature a higher reading speedo than the Miata part (not that I'll ever need it but Ben might be happy), the interesting "smushed" speedo/tach layout...does this more closely hew to the "traditional" FC centered tach arrangement?...and four subgauges.
There also appear to be enough warning lights available to incorporate the idiot cluster into the main gauge unit(s).
Any opinions on these, I'd be interested to hear.
I've switched from the FD steering wheel (same diameter as stock but thicker rim) to a 350mm Momo (about as small as I can stand) and all gauges remain visible.
The lighting is great.
I've made only half-assed attempts at the cosmetic integration- and done nothing about the VDO install, primarily because I'm considering radically expanding the scope of the project.
Here are two new clusters I'm looking at:
The second, smaller pic shows the Firebird gauges with white dials. These are aftermarket overlays, the cluster comes with black dials...which is what I'd want, I just couldn't find a good pic of it.
Both feature a higher reading speedo than the Miata part (not that I'll ever need it but Ben might be happy), the interesting "smushed" speedo/tach layout...does this more closely hew to the "traditional" FC centered tach arrangement?...and four subgauges.
There also appear to be enough warning lights available to incorporate the idiot cluster into the main gauge unit(s).
Any opinions on these, I'd be interested to hear.
02-14-12, 09:15 AM
#118
Ultimately I'm aiming towards a darkside swap, so the lower tach limit isn't a big concern.
The swap is precisely why I'm looking at the last two clusters- they'd be plug-n-play (save the fuel gauge) with a GM V-8, whereas the current Miata cluster would require Dakota Digital boxes for the speedo & tach.
I rarely exceed 6k with my enfeebled NA rotary, but I can see how the low tach might be a deal breaker for turbo guys.
Sorry about that.
Using either of these clusters would expand the scope of this project greatly.
To date, no modification of the dash has been needed- I could revert to stock in minutes (well, except for having to replace the speedo drive...that would take a bit longer) but these guys are different.
I'd have to cut away some of the inner structure above the column because both of these clusters fit lower over the steering (especially the Firebird part) and doing so puts the gauges and the stock switchgear at odds.
Basically, I'd have to convert to stalk mounted switches.
Which bothers me not at all.
Off to the junkyard to explore the possibilities.
The swap is precisely why I'm looking at the last two clusters- they'd be plug-n-play (save the fuel gauge) with a GM V-8, whereas the current Miata cluster would require Dakota Digital boxes for the speedo & tach.
I rarely exceed 6k with my enfeebled NA rotary, but I can see how the low tach might be a deal breaker for turbo guys.
Sorry about that.
Using either of these clusters would expand the scope of this project greatly.
To date, no modification of the dash has been needed- I could revert to stock in minutes (well, except for having to replace the speedo drive...that would take a bit longer) but these guys are different.
I'd have to cut away some of the inner structure above the column because both of these clusters fit lower over the steering (especially the Firebird part) and doing so puts the gauges and the stock switchgear at odds.
Basically, I'd have to convert to stalk mounted switches.
Which bothers me not at all.
Off to the junkyard to explore the possibilities.
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Jeff20B
1st Generation Specific (1979-1985)
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09-16-18 07:16 PM
