clokker

iTrader: (2)

I hate the FC gauge layout.
It's irritatingly asymmetrical- which irks my aesthetic sensibilities- but worse, anything except the stock steering wheel obscures the oil pressure and speedo gauges.

Last year I adapted a Miata cluster into the swapped FD* and have been very happy with them so I decided to see what it would take to fit them into the FC.
Turns out, not much.
Unlike the FD, my dash is in reasonably good condition, so I was determined not to modify it in any way.
All the work was done to the gauges themselves and it should be nearly plug-n-play.
The FC speedo cable will not fit the Miata gauge, I have a Miata cable but have yet to fit it to the tranny to confirm suitability.
Not sure yet what the tach will do, might need some resistors or something (like a Digital Dakota module) but the fuel level, water temp and oil pressure should all work just fine.
Mostly I was only doing a proof of concept but it's turning out so well I decided to keep going.

Anyway, here's what's involved.

The Miata gauges are assembled pretty much like the FC's.
The gauge facia clips to the body housing with six clips.
This beauty panel (again, just like the FC) holds the glass (OK, plastic) but it's exactly opposite of ours (most gauges are the opposite of ours actually) in that the glass angles out at the top.
This all has to go because we need to meld the Miata front panel into the FC part.
First to go is the cowl hood...




Then the Miata faceplate (now basically flat) is trimmed to width and the FC faceplate (glass has been removed at this point- no easy task because it's glued in) is gutted to fit the Miata piece.
Looks like so...


Keep in mind this is a prototype, the finished version will be more accurately cut now that I have these parts to work with.
I have an idea how to finish this but haven't gotten that far yet.
Mainly I wanted to confirm that the two small outside gauges would fit within the FC bezel...and they do.

I used some tape to temporarily hold the assembly together and tried to fit it in the car.
Bolts in just like stock, no clearance issues at all.

Here it is in situ...


And with the steering wheel in place...

This is a JDM Momo Miata wheel (or so the seller claimed) and is 380mm diameter (like the FC stocker) but it's apparent that a much smaller wheel could be fitted without obscuring anything.

I'm very happy and surprised so far, this was so much simpler than the work on the FD.

Next up will be the finishing, electrical, new cable (I hope) and finish install.
Wish me luck.


*Currently awaiting a Firebird cluster which I think looks great and should fit the FD better.

Gregory Casimir

iTrader: (8)

i like it.
just needs some touching up but it looks really good!

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

It works, but I have no problem with the stock cluster: Tach is the biggest, and smack dab in the middle. Perfect. Speedometer I don't care about, but it's kind of hard to miss.

I do like that the miata has the oil pressure in the middle there though...

Derekcat

iTrader: (8)

I really like the stock FC gauge cluster.. And from what I've seen with Miata gauges, the FC ones are more accurate [or at least consistent..]: my Dad's 90 and my friend's 93 both have tach issues [the 93 one is always at ~2500 until you wind it up, then it drops to 0, the 90's is mostly accurate but twitches around where it should be..]

Usually I'm pretty strict about symmetry, but the FC gauges never felt off balance to me.. Centered tach, and then equal parts speedo and small gauges.

It does look like the Miata cluster fits in there pretty nicely though. Even if it reminds me of a Toyota.

MazdaMike02

iTrader: (4)

Awesome idea, I read the title and was like really? Then saw who was posting and was like thank god its not another "yo can I like put parts from like a miata in my RX7?"

I like the miata cluster, only thing id do is orange lettering and needles.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I've had the Miata gauges* in the FD for about a year and haven't seen anything like that.



I'm not a strict symmetricist (I think I just made that word up...) but I really hated the obstruction when using a smaller wheel.
I think it's weird that Mazda designed a rectangular gauge layout that is viewed through a semicircle. They even had to offset the wheel to get a good viewing angle. Seems like someone really liked that gauge design...just not me.
I'm doing this more as an experiment than anything else. The FD dash is undergoing a major modification and I have a couple of finish ideas I want to try before committing to them. This project was an easy test and absolutely nothing was altered in the process...the stock cluster/wiring are still intact and can be replaced in a few minutes.

*The white faced gauges are later model Miata and come with an electronic speedo, the black face unit has the mechanical gauge and hopefully can be made to work with the FC. The white gauges have beautiful red lighting, not sure what the black face is.

Edit:
You'll note that the later model (white face) gauges do have red needles (internally lighted, no less) but I'm happy for the simple black/white or white/black lettering.
At my advanced age the stock gauges with orange on black are hard to read, especially at night.

Derekcat

iTrader: (8)

Ahh that's good. Just thought I should mention it since both of them have issues.
lol, I like the word, let's keep it.

Thinking about it.. The original Top Gear FC review mentions the wheel obscuring the oil pressure gauge, But I think I'm exactly the height of the guy who tested it, I can see everything perfectly [albeit with a stock S4 2spoke wheel].

If the black gauges are stock, they use green lighting [I like the color, but not on gauges].

I've always liked the orange lighting, it's not very harsh at night, but different than the now common [and ideal for night driving] red light..

Out of curiosity, was the FD gauge swap for the same reason?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

No, the FD has a Vette engine and a t-56 trans so the stock FD gauges were not going to work and the whole dash was crap anyway, so modding it was the cheapest way to go.
Ultimately I'm thinking the white face Miata gauges will go into the FC and the FD will get a Firebird cluster.
The FD has possibly the worst stock layout I've ever seen...it seems totally random to me.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

wow interesting swap. back in the day i put the whole miata dash in an FC, and it never got past the prototype stage (the body shell was too bent to use), surprisingly the miata dash is really close to fitting the FC.

i think the miata speedo cable will work, i'm surprised the FC cable doesnt go into the miata speedo acually.

the tach should work too, they are both just 4 cylinders after all.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i like the looks but don't like losing the 160mph speedo, the later model ones go to 150 but have digital odometers which will be even more of a pain to work around.

interesting look nonetheless. i like the round white face gauges and easier to see viewing on it(the FD version looks better IMO with the chrome trim rings, backlit amber needles and newer fonts as well as the 150mph speedo). wonder what it would take to make that one work, does the speedo read the mileage off the ECU or is it stored in the cluster.. have to assume it is a digital input like the FD so would take some swapping like an FD speed sensor into an FC tranny somehow. fortunately i should have a few spare FD speed sensors on my core trannies.

now you have me interested, can omit that lame speedo cable from the engine bay at the same time! looks like a good used late model cluster is about $50, not too bad.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The mileage is stored in the cluster.
When I first powered up the white faced unit it showed mileage and it's not connected to the ECU at all.
I'm pulling the speedo signal from the T-56 VSS and running it through a Digital Dakota box to calibrate it.
If you find a speed sensor that will plug into a FC transmission PLEASE let me know.
I haven't gotten that far (and probably won't) but it sure would be interesting to know.

BTW, both the black and white gauges have the chrome trim rings, I'd removed the ones on the black faced unit while I hacked on it.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i'd almost bet the FD speed sensor will fit but may require some modification.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I don't know how I feel. On one hand, it looks good. But on the other hand RX vehicles must have the tach in the center, then all other "unimportant" gauges off to the side.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

in all honesty i don't even use the tach unless i'm cruising and want to stay below the injector transition.

i either listen to the engine or shift with the buzzer, mainly you just know when to shift without looking at all after a while. so i really don't see the huge importance for it, i use every other gauge besides the tach much more.

oh, and most FC tachs are nearly 500 RPMs off at 8k.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Interesting.
My two main gauges are water temp and fuel level.

Bamato

iTrader: (6)

I like it in the FD. Not so sure on the FC yet. Have to see the finished product.

If you could get them to work, wiring up the warning lights would be handy for people that want the dash space to be dedicated to something else (like triple guage pods) without having to move the idiot light cluster somewhere else.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

So far I have everything save the speedometer and oil pressure working.
I don't think the OP gauge likes my sending unit...it moves, but erratically.
There are a few alternatives at hand to try, so I'm not worried.

There are certainly plenty of unused warning lights in the cluster, but I have not checked to see how they correspond to the FC part. Wiring them would be dead simple but the icons might be weird.

I'll get some pics of the "finished" part soon.
I'm sourcing another set of the NB (white face) gauges because I want to rethink the way I integrated the two parts. All these plastic bits are fiendishly complex and the apparent similarities are only skin deep. Not to mention, I'm learning this plastic work as I go and the learning curve is steep.
The second difficulty- admittedly self-imposed- was that I did not want to modify the dash at all. So far the entire test is 100% reversible in about ten minutes (I've got the process down to a science now).

For all of the weird **** I've done to my car, at heart she's still bone stock...every single mod has been "bolt on" and can be restored to original.
I don't know why, but I could.
So this was more of a thought exercise than anything else.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

it goes right in. on the FD it just goes right to the speedo, not sure about the miata

clokker

iTrader: (2)

That is wonderful news.
Karack, you had mentioned you may have a few of those on some cores...could you PM me, please?)

These shots were taken around dusk and I'd installed my smallest diameter wheel (330mm):


The stock lighting is indeed green but I've removed the green condoms from the bulbs and left them bare. It's kind of an odd effect, I present it without comment:

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

yeah i just checked real quick and the speedo generator for the FD dimensions are the same as an FC but the gear is a bit taller for the FD, at least compared to the non turbo one i pulled out. i don't have a turbo one to compare it to, if it's a direct swap(into a TII transmission) i wonder if the correction even needs to be made. i don't have any TII trannies complete to try it out on, they're all in pieces, heh.

which? you looking for the FD speed generators? if so i have about 3 or 4 of them.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

wait wait wait. am i reading that there is an electronic speed sensor that plugs into the FC tranny??

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Well yes, I am interested.
Not to be crass, but how much?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

for you, $10 shipped.

worst case you may have to epoxy the FC speedo gear onto the FD sensor as the FD sensor gear is notched and circlipped, the FC gear appears to be pressed onto the n/a unit that i looked at, it may have the notch as well under the crimp which would make it directly swappable. but yes, the FD sensor is an electrical generator sensor for the digital FD speedo and the dimensions are the same between the 2 aside from the external protrusion which doesn't matter.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

That's very generous and much appreciated.
Further details via PM.

Again, thanks.

Hypertek

iTrader: (3)

I been wondering if those Miata chrome rings would fit FC cluster, can you confirm ? thanks