I just bought an 87 Turbo II for track duty. Need input.
02-18-04, 12:05 AM
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I just bought an 87 Turbo II for track duty. Need input.
One owner, 130,000 miles, ~25k on Mazda reman (1999), new paint by a good shop in '96. All this for the low low introductory price of $1100. It's going to need a few grand before it's ready to see a track (road racing) event, but hopefully I can get the car sound and ready before April (to maximize the length of my season).
Anyway, down to business, known issues:
1. Turbo is DOA. Hosed hosed hosed... It could be a busted vacuum line ot something, but the guy made it sound like the thing hasn't seen boost in years.
2. Brakes are almost completely useless. I expect to see dirty shop rags for brake pads when I take the wheels off.
3. Insanely annoying rattle under passenger side of the interior cowl panel (front right most portion of the dash). This is something that will drive me bat-**** if I don't fix it.
4. Tires suck. One is basically flat.
5. A bit of cancer under the paint on the sunroof.
6. I'm pretty sure the sunroof doesn't move, also the gerbil that rolls up the passenger window is getting old, cause that rolls up at about 1 foot per hour.
7. Shifter bushings are trashed. I've got about 6 inches of lateral play with the trany in gear.
8. Washer and Rear Hatch idiot-lights are always on.
9. The seats, floor-mats and some interior pieces need flat out replacing.
10. Some minor scratches and dents on the body, nothing I'm going to lose any sleep over.
Other than that the car looks great, suspension is there, the NA power is smooth, the idle is nice for a rotary, the paint is pretty awesome... I made out like a bandit.
I'm about to go over my draft needed-parts list, if you folks think I'm missing something, or if you know prices or good places to buy things, please let me know. I've done a decent amount of Archive searching, but when you go from zero car to "holy-sh*t-this-thing-needs-a-lot-of-work" in one move you tend to miss things. The goal is ~220-260 rwhp without having to go insane with fueling or electronics. I have no interest in making a horsepower machine, just something that's balanced and reliably quick, with brakes, safety and suspension to match.
Parts to purchase now (just to get it onto a track):
1. Upgraded turbo (Stage I from RX7Store?) - $650
2. Downpipe and mid-pipe (I like high-flow cats, actually). - $400-???
3. Brake Lines (stainless), Pads (2 sets, street and track), Fluid (RBF 600), and maybe rotors. $300-$600?
4. Silicon Vacuum hoses (Hose Techniques) - $110
5. Short Shifter - where, what?
6. Tires (maybe wheels too, this is something I need to decide on).
7. Recaro or Sparco seats ($600-1100, depending on pimp factor)
8. Tune up: Plugs, Plug Wires, Fuel Filter, Oil change, Air filter, Trany oil, Gear oil, scope the wheel bearings, suspension sanity checks. - $15mil in Monopoly money.
9. Roll bar and harnesses?
The want-to-haves:
1. Springs, Dampeners, and camber systems (recommendations? I won't spend $2k on coilovers, no thanks).
2. Wheels to go with the new tires (I admit to being vain)
3. New carpet and new mats, some interior bits, anyone have a good source?
4. Boost controller, S-AFC and dyno-time? This may very well move into the needs-list considering that the upgraded turbo will have different efficiency islands and probably lose parity with the factory tune.
5. A new sunroof... Maybe plexan? Saran wrap? I'm all ears.
Anyway, any help or advice you can offer is much appreciated.
BTW now when somebody says "let's take the S4," I can roguishly reply: "Which one?"
http://www.winisp.net/bryth/images/06.jpg
Anyway, down to business, known issues:
1. Turbo is DOA. Hosed hosed hosed... It could be a busted vacuum line ot something, but the guy made it sound like the thing hasn't seen boost in years.
2. Brakes are almost completely useless. I expect to see dirty shop rags for brake pads when I take the wheels off.
3. Insanely annoying rattle under passenger side of the interior cowl panel (front right most portion of the dash). This is something that will drive me bat-**** if I don't fix it.
4. Tires suck. One is basically flat.
5. A bit of cancer under the paint on the sunroof.
6. I'm pretty sure the sunroof doesn't move, also the gerbil that rolls up the passenger window is getting old, cause that rolls up at about 1 foot per hour.
7. Shifter bushings are trashed. I've got about 6 inches of lateral play with the trany in gear.
8. Washer and Rear Hatch idiot-lights are always on.
9. The seats, floor-mats and some interior pieces need flat out replacing.
10. Some minor scratches and dents on the body, nothing I'm going to lose any sleep over.
Other than that the car looks great, suspension is there, the NA power is smooth, the idle is nice for a rotary, the paint is pretty awesome... I made out like a bandit.
I'm about to go over my draft needed-parts list, if you folks think I'm missing something, or if you know prices or good places to buy things, please let me know. I've done a decent amount of Archive searching, but when you go from zero car to "holy-sh*t-this-thing-needs-a-lot-of-work" in one move you tend to miss things. The goal is ~220-260 rwhp without having to go insane with fueling or electronics. I have no interest in making a horsepower machine, just something that's balanced and reliably quick, with brakes, safety and suspension to match.
Parts to purchase now (just to get it onto a track):
1. Upgraded turbo (Stage I from RX7Store?) - $650
2. Downpipe and mid-pipe (I like high-flow cats, actually). - $400-???
3. Brake Lines (stainless), Pads (2 sets, street and track), Fluid (RBF 600), and maybe rotors. $300-$600?
4. Silicon Vacuum hoses (Hose Techniques) - $110
5. Short Shifter - where, what?
6. Tires (maybe wheels too, this is something I need to decide on).
7. Recaro or Sparco seats ($600-1100, depending on pimp factor)
8. Tune up: Plugs, Plug Wires, Fuel Filter, Oil change, Air filter, Trany oil, Gear oil, scope the wheel bearings, suspension sanity checks. - $15mil in Monopoly money.
9. Roll bar and harnesses?
The want-to-haves:
1. Springs, Dampeners, and camber systems (recommendations? I won't spend $2k on coilovers, no thanks).
2. Wheels to go with the new tires (I admit to being vain)
3. New carpet and new mats, some interior bits, anyone have a good source?
4. Boost controller, S-AFC and dyno-time? This may very well move into the needs-list considering that the upgraded turbo will have different efficiency islands and probably lose parity with the factory tune.
5. A new sunroof... Maybe plexan? Saran wrap? I'm all ears.
Anyway, any help or advice you can offer is much appreciated.
BTW now when somebody says "let's take the S4," I can roguishly reply: "Which one?"
http://www.winisp.net/bryth/images/06.jpg
02-18-04, 02:13 AM
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Is this going to be a race car or just a track car? If it's a race car figure out what class you want to be in before you do anything to the car. Then prepare the car according the those rules and regulations.
If it's a track car, first thing I'd do is replace everything that might need replacing. And then the coolant, thermostat, and whatever else to keep the car reliable. Then find some good light wheels and good street tires. Don't go crazy on the mods. Replace the bushings on the car and get a good suspension setup. Seat time is way better than more mods. You can spend a lot of money on stuff you don't need to get on the track.
If it's a track car, first thing I'd do is replace everything that might need replacing. And then the coolant, thermostat, and whatever else to keep the car reliable. Then find some good light wheels and good street tires. Don't go crazy on the mods. Replace the bushings on the car and get a good suspension setup. Seat time is way better than more mods. You can spend a lot of money on stuff you don't need to get on the track.
02-18-04, 01:20 PM
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It's just a track ***** (open-sessions, 'friendly and easy' driving), when I get hardcore enough to want to go wheel-to-wheel and compete I'll probably build a Spec Miata.
I've enough seat time to know my comfort level with a car. This is actually going to be one of the easier cars I've driven. My main concern is covering all my bases while I'm rebuilding this thing. I'm also totally new to this community (2 posts, heh), so I'm not sure which retailers to take my business to, which products to avoid, and et cetera.
I still have a bunch of searching to do, so feel free to tell me to "STFU n00b!"
I've enough seat time to know my comfort level with a car. This is actually going to be one of the easier cars I've driven. My main concern is covering all my bases while I'm rebuilding this thing. I'm also totally new to this community (2 posts, heh), so I'm not sure which retailers to take my business to, which products to avoid, and et cetera.
I still have a bunch of searching to do, so feel free to tell me to "STFU n00b!"
02-18-04, 02:30 PM
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If the track you will be racing at doesn't require a roll cage...hold off on that until you are further down the road. Just some advice, once you start upgrading turbo/engine components there is really no stopping place until you have everything full built. (big turbo, big intercooler, standalone, engine mods, fuel mods....the list goes on) I say hold off on the big stuff, and just make the car perform(engine wise) at stock levels for now. My advise would be get a totally kickass suspension setup like Tein or Cusco, that would be the most worthwhile upgrade for track racing. Then tires of course. But before you start getting into the goodies, you NEED to give the car a full tune-up (maybe with some upgrades) to make the beast reliable.
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02-18-04, 02:43 PM
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Thanks, Davidov.
The "no stopping till it's done" paradigm is what I've been sensing from all of my reading. I wonder what the feasibility is of installing a slightly upgraded turbo (like the Stage 1 at RX7 store) for future use, but keeping the performance levels of the system relatively stock. The turbo needs to be replaced, but I don't want to replace it again 6-12 months down the road when I'm feeling a big horsepower itch.
At any rate, this thing is getting the most thorough tune-up that I can devise.
The "no stopping till it's done" paradigm is what I've been sensing from all of my reading. I wonder what the feasibility is of installing a slightly upgraded turbo (like the Stage 1 at RX7 store) for future use, but keeping the performance levels of the system relatively stock. The turbo needs to be replaced, but I don't want to replace it again 6-12 months down the road when I'm feeling a big horsepower itch.
At any rate, this thing is getting the most thorough tune-up that I can devise.
02-18-04, 02:49 PM
#9
Haven't we ALL heard this
Re: I just bought an 87 Turbo II for track duty. Need input.
Originally posted by bryantho
One owner, 130,000 miles, ~25k on Mazda reman (1999), new paint by a good shop in '96. All this for the low low introductory price of $1100. It's going to need a few grand before it's ready to see a track (road racing) event, but hopefully I can get the car sound and ready before April (to maximize the length of my season).
Anyway, down to business, known issues:
1. Turbo is DOA. Hosed hosed hosed... It could be a busted vacuum line ot something, but the guy made it sound like the thing hasn't seen boost in years.
Try to fix it but maybe stick with a small upgrade but maybe not very extreme.
2. Brakes are almost completely useless. I expect to see dirty shop rags for brake pads when I take the wheels off.
I would say your best bet is to get some upgraded brake pads. See if the brakes need to be rebuilt. Look at the rubber seals around the piston to see if they are degrading or leaking fluid. Also, some stainless steel brake lines would help (maybe 100 bucks)
3. Insanely annoying rattle under passenger side of the interior cowl panel (front right most portion of the dash). This is something that will drive me bat-**** if I don't fix it.
Find it. Fix it
4. Tires suck. One is basically flat.
I would go with some tire that is speedrated to handle what you are going to do to it. Maybe stay away from race rubber until you know how to drive. It would be ashame to flat spot race rubber because your skills are undeveloped. Also, less stress at race time changing tires. You should be focusing on the drive.
5. A bit of cancer under the paint on the sunroof.
If this car is used just for racing and you do not care. Weld it shut. Before you weld it gut the whole system and weld it.
6. I'm pretty sure the sunroof doesn't move, also the gerbil that rolls up the passenger window is getting old, cause that rolls up at about 1 foot per hour
See number five
7. Shifter bushings are trashed. I've got about 6 inches of lateral play with the trany in gear.
Go to mazdatrix.com for the parts you need. This is a common problem.
8. Washer and Rear Hatch idiot-lights are always on.
Check the hatch switch to see if it works. Fluid? You tried to fill it? If not just take the bulb out. Not like you need to worry. Just fill it before you race.
9. The seats, floor-mats and some interior pieces need flat out replacing.
If you are racing you do not floor mats. They might get bunched up and behind pedals. Do not want that. Who cares about the interior.
10. Some minor scratches and dents on the body, nothing I'm going to lose any sleep over.
Don't lose that sleep. That is a good thing. Would you want to take a new paint job to a track? You might take it off course into a tire wall.
If your gonna run the car on a track upgrade your springs and struts. Also, for wheels I would go with finding the S5 TII wheels. They are light (17lbs compare S4 rims at 29lbs) and cheap. Also, a 16 inch rim is good enough and your tires wont be $$
Other than that the car looks great, suspension is there, the NA power is smooth, the idle is nice for a rotary, the paint is pretty awesome... I made out like a bandit.
For power I would do this.
Take drivers insruction.
TUNE UP
Racing beat turbo exhaust system.
FCD (Fuel cut defensor)
Upgrade your fuel pump and do the fuel pump rewire.
Search for the rewire.
Maybe do a quick dyno run to make sure your not running lean.
I'm about to go over my draft needed-parts list, if you folks think I'm missing something, or if you know prices or good places to buy things, please let me know. I've done a decent amount of Archive searching, but when you go from zero car to "holy-sh*t-this-thing-needs-a-lot-of-work" in one move you tend to miss things. The goal is ~220-260 rwhp without having to go insane with fueling or electronics. I have no interest in making a horsepower machine, just something that's balanced and reliably quick, with brakes, safety and suspension to match.
Parts to purchase now (just to get it onto a track):
1. Upgraded turbo (Stage I from RX7Store?) - $650
2. Downpipe and mid-pipe (I like high-flow cats, actually). - $400-???
3. Brake Lines (stainless), Pads (2 sets, street and track), Fluid (RBF 600), and maybe rotors. $300-$600?
4. Silicon Vacuum hoses (Hose Techniques) - $110
5. Short Shifter - where, what?
6. Tires (maybe wheels too, this is something I need to decide on).
7. Recaro or Sparco seats ($600-1100, depending on pimp factor)
8. Tune up: Plugs, Plug Wires, Fuel Filter, Oil change, Air filter, Trany oil, Gear oil, scope the wheel bearings, suspension sanity checks. - $15mil in Monopoly money.
9. Roll bar and harnesses?
The want-to-haves:
1. Springs, Dampeners, and camber systems (recommendations? I won't spend $2k on coilovers, no thanks).
2. Wheels to go with the new tires (I admit to being vain)
3. New carpet and new mats, some interior bits, anyone have a good source?
4. Boost controller, S-AFC and dyno-time? This may very well move into the needs-list considering that the upgraded turbo will have different efficiency islands and probably lose parity with the factory tune.
5. A new sunroof... Maybe plexan? Saran wrap? I'm all ears.
Anyway, any help or advice you can offer is much appreciated.
BTW now when somebody says "let's take the S4," I can roguishly reply: "Which one?"
http://www.winisp.net/bryth/images/06.jpg
One owner, 130,000 miles, ~25k on Mazda reman (1999), new paint by a good shop in '96. All this for the low low introductory price of $1100. It's going to need a few grand before it's ready to see a track (road racing) event, but hopefully I can get the car sound and ready before April (to maximize the length of my season).
Anyway, down to business, known issues:
1. Turbo is DOA. Hosed hosed hosed... It could be a busted vacuum line ot something, but the guy made it sound like the thing hasn't seen boost in years.
Try to fix it but maybe stick with a small upgrade but maybe not very extreme.
2. Brakes are almost completely useless. I expect to see dirty shop rags for brake pads when I take the wheels off.
I would say your best bet is to get some upgraded brake pads. See if the brakes need to be rebuilt. Look at the rubber seals around the piston to see if they are degrading or leaking fluid. Also, some stainless steel brake lines would help (maybe 100 bucks)
3. Insanely annoying rattle under passenger side of the interior cowl panel (front right most portion of the dash). This is something that will drive me bat-**** if I don't fix it.
Find it. Fix it
4. Tires suck. One is basically flat.
I would go with some tire that is speedrated to handle what you are going to do to it. Maybe stay away from race rubber until you know how to drive. It would be ashame to flat spot race rubber because your skills are undeveloped. Also, less stress at race time changing tires. You should be focusing on the drive.
5. A bit of cancer under the paint on the sunroof.
If this car is used just for racing and you do not care. Weld it shut. Before you weld it gut the whole system and weld it.
6. I'm pretty sure the sunroof doesn't move, also the gerbil that rolls up the passenger window is getting old, cause that rolls up at about 1 foot per hour
See number five
7. Shifter bushings are trashed. I've got about 6 inches of lateral play with the trany in gear.
Go to mazdatrix.com for the parts you need. This is a common problem.
8. Washer and Rear Hatch idiot-lights are always on.
Check the hatch switch to see if it works. Fluid? You tried to fill it? If not just take the bulb out. Not like you need to worry. Just fill it before you race.
9. The seats, floor-mats and some interior pieces need flat out replacing.
If you are racing you do not floor mats. They might get bunched up and behind pedals. Do not want that. Who cares about the interior.
10. Some minor scratches and dents on the body, nothing I'm going to lose any sleep over.
Don't lose that sleep. That is a good thing. Would you want to take a new paint job to a track? You might take it off course into a tire wall.
If your gonna run the car on a track upgrade your springs and struts. Also, for wheels I would go with finding the S5 TII wheels. They are light (17lbs compare S4 rims at 29lbs) and cheap. Also, a 16 inch rim is good enough and your tires wont be $$
Other than that the car looks great, suspension is there, the NA power is smooth, the idle is nice for a rotary, the paint is pretty awesome... I made out like a bandit.
For power I would do this.
Take drivers insruction.
TUNE UP
Racing beat turbo exhaust system.
FCD (Fuel cut defensor)
Upgrade your fuel pump and do the fuel pump rewire.
Search for the rewire.
Maybe do a quick dyno run to make sure your not running lean.
I'm about to go over my draft needed-parts list, if you folks think I'm missing something, or if you know prices or good places to buy things, please let me know. I've done a decent amount of Archive searching, but when you go from zero car to "holy-sh*t-this-thing-needs-a-lot-of-work" in one move you tend to miss things. The goal is ~220-260 rwhp without having to go insane with fueling or electronics. I have no interest in making a horsepower machine, just something that's balanced and reliably quick, with brakes, safety and suspension to match.
Parts to purchase now (just to get it onto a track):
1. Upgraded turbo (Stage I from RX7Store?) - $650
2. Downpipe and mid-pipe (I like high-flow cats, actually). - $400-???
3. Brake Lines (stainless), Pads (2 sets, street and track), Fluid (RBF 600), and maybe rotors. $300-$600?
4. Silicon Vacuum hoses (Hose Techniques) - $110
5. Short Shifter - where, what?
6. Tires (maybe wheels too, this is something I need to decide on).
7. Recaro or Sparco seats ($600-1100, depending on pimp factor)
8. Tune up: Plugs, Plug Wires, Fuel Filter, Oil change, Air filter, Trany oil, Gear oil, scope the wheel bearings, suspension sanity checks. - $15mil in Monopoly money.
9. Roll bar and harnesses?
The want-to-haves:
1. Springs, Dampeners, and camber systems (recommendations? I won't spend $2k on coilovers, no thanks).
2. Wheels to go with the new tires (I admit to being vain)
3. New carpet and new mats, some interior bits, anyone have a good source?
4. Boost controller, S-AFC and dyno-time? This may very well move into the needs-list considering that the upgraded turbo will have different efficiency islands and probably lose parity with the factory tune.
5. A new sunroof... Maybe plexan? Saran wrap? I'm all ears.
Anyway, any help or advice you can offer is much appreciated.
BTW now when somebody says "let's take the S4," I can roguishly reply: "Which one?"
http://www.winisp.net/bryth/images/06.jpg
02-18-04, 02:56 PM
#10
Haven't we ALL heard this
Oh yeah.
Every thing you need minus turbo stuff.
http://www.negative-camber.org/crispyrx7/fc/fcpart1.htm
Every thing you need minus turbo stuff.
http://www.negative-camber.org/crispyrx7/fc/fcpart1.htm
02-18-04, 03:04 PM
#11
FWIW the two reasons I chose NOT to buy a turbo for track/race duty: race classification and simplicity.
I also own an FD so you can see what I mean by wanting to keep it simple. And FWIW I believe my N/A FC will be equally as fast as my FD when I'm through and my FD ain't no slouch either
Regards,
Crispy
Simplicity is Supreme excellence - James Watt, 1870
02-18-04, 03:05 PM
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Thank you very much, Wankel7, you're a prince.
BTW, most of the stuff I bitch about that has nothing to do with track necessity stems from me being ****. I'm not going to trailer the car, so being able to enjoy it on the street is somewhat (but not very) important to me.
BTW, most of the stuff I bitch about that has nothing to do with track necessity stems from me being ****. I'm not going to trailer the car, so being able to enjoy it on the street is somewhat (but not very) important to me.
02-18-04, 03:11 PM
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!
02-18-04, 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by CrispyRX7
HEY NOW! Don't I get any thanks for writing those pages???
Crispy
- dunno if I want to be a "prince" tho!
HEY NOW! Don't I get any thanks for writing those pages???
Crispy
- dunno if I want to be a "prince" tho!
If you change your mind on the princing, I'll hook you up.
Anyone have opinions on the Turbo that Toddzilla posted?
02-18-04, 04:10 PM
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Bryan, e-mail Bryan at BNR Supercars. He's the guy that upgrades those turbos.
bnrsupercars@aol.com
Ask him. From what I'm reading it sounds like the stage 1 or 2 should work for you.
bnrsupercars@aol.com
Ask him. From what I'm reading it sounds like the stage 1 or 2 should work for you.
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