HAILERS

It'd never hurt to fix a broken part.

I can't tell about the sparkplug. Nothing too unusual there.

I can't make heads or tails about *Tried to start the car and it didn't start in the crank. Second one started it." What does that mean?

And lastly, it takes only a few brief minutes to remove a wire from a plug as mentioned in a post I made above. It cost nothing to do that.

dennis blackstone

i almost bought a rx8 but after reading there flooding problems i opted out ,it would be embarasing stuck in a parking lot with a knew car .....there saying they had to update there starter to a more stronger one and it suposidly fixed the problem but still ill stick to my fc ...it seems like when my compression gets better as i put my miles on it i have less hotstarts

thanks hailers ...i see alot of post when putting a bigger fuel pump like a bosch or walbro it will flood fc whats the story behind that?

NZConvertible

A bigger fuel pump will increase fuel pressure. Unless you have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to turn the pressure back to stock levels, or a programmable ECU (not just a fuel controller), then more fuel will be pushed through the injectors all the time, including cranking. That increases the chances of flooding.

dennis blackstone

nzconvertable have you ever had hot starts and what did you do to resolve it

NZConvertible

My engine has done 190,000km (~120,000 miles) and is now showing the symptoms of lowish compression, i.e. when the engine's hot, there's a period from about 5 minutes after shut-down where it'll flood on restart. Try within 5 minutes and it usually starts okay. About 20 minutes after shut-down it'll restart fine. I use a fuel pump switch because it's easy and effective, and I'm also soon going to swap in a spare starter I rebuilt, because faster cranking reduces the chances of a flood. The problem won't be resolved until the engine is rebuilt.

HAILERS

Lower the amount of fuel delivered during START.

dennis blackstone

so like the rx8 they fixed there flooding by a stronger starter and a faster spin do you think thats possible with our fcs hailers routed me to an article about that, but i think hailers is on point about too much fuel on start up on old motors ...i wonder if the starter my help what do you think hailers

NZConvertible

Honestly, I can't be bothered. The fuel pump switch is so quick and easy to use, and I can usually predict when flooding is likely to occur and switch it off before cranking. I like your idea of using the SVS to switch out the ECU's start signal based on engine temp, but so far using the fuel pump switch hasn't gotten frequent enough or annoying enough to motivate me.

It's well known that slow cranking increases the chance of flooding. It doesn't cause it though. My engine cranks noticeably slower than it used to, and I know this is simply because of the starter motor's age. That's why I'm replacing it, not because I think it'll cure flooding. It'll be interesting to see how beneficial it'll be in that regard though.

dennis blackstone

nzconvertable could you post your results when you change your starter for the newbies......ye or ney

RotaMan99

The faster the engine spins, the higher the compression so im sure thats why a new or faster starter works.

dennis blackstone

i think your right it makes sense when i crank my 7 after its hot it cranks slow when its cold it cranks fast i wonder if buying a knew strarter would be good or getting a stronger one ..this may be far fetched but i wonder if the updated starter for the rx8 would fit?

RotaMan99

I would just buy a new one. I'll put $50 on the table betting that the new starter will spin faster then the old one. Also when the engine is hot, there is less compression as well.

dennis blackstone

so rotaman99 should it be aftermarket starter or stock

AUGieDogie

iTrader: (4)

I thought the same thing and swaped out a perfectly working starter. Still cranked slow when warm.

As soon as I mess with the fuel on startup, she starts just fine.

NZConvertible

Sure, if you've got money to burn. I just rebuilt mine for a whole NZ$20 (US$15), which is the price of a brush set.

There is absolutely no need for an expensive aftermarket starter motor, even if you could find one.

Slow cranking is either a bad starter, a bad battery or bad electrical connections.

RotaMan99

I have never tried rebuilding one, I like new parts which is why, I myself would just buy a new one.

Like NZ said, there is no reason to buy a aftermarket "super fast" starter. Starters like that, if you found one, may require a stronger battery if yours were to be weak due to age or improper size.

NZConvertible

I'd never done it either. It was very easy to do using the FSM for reference, and the brushes are really the only parts that wear. Everything else on my starter was within the FSM specs so buying a new one would've been a waste of money.

You should try it, it's far more rewarding than just buying a new one.

dennis blackstone

what is involved in rebuilding the starter like you said its only the brushes go bad ...would you say its easy to rebuild whats the availability of the parts needed

NZConvertible

The only reference I used was the FSM. I was surprised how little useful info I found on the internet. Everybody seems happy to pay other people to do this.

As long as you pay careful attention during disassembly, it's very easy. Only basic tools are required. Most of the time I spent on this was in cleaning everything thoroughly. I used two cans of brake cleaner, as both the inside and outside were absolutely filthy. During reassembly I used axle grease on the areas the FSM listed.

I got the parts from a place that specialises in alternators and start motors. They had them in stock. The only other part that might need replacing is the rear bearing, but mine was fine. I doubt many go bad.

dennis blackstone

thanks nz that's my knew project then I can put that with the other ye and neys to help the newbies

NZConvertible

As long as you know it's not going to cure any flooding problem, it might just happen a bit less often...

dennis blackstone

your right it may be the combination of a bad bac injectors ecu low compression but I'm thinking on the lines what hailers said too much fuel on start up on high millage fcs so that tells me that as parts get old and compression is lowif you spin the motor slow it will flood with that bad combo ..so if it spins fast it can build that compression and fire remember our 7s have 20year old starters and old plugs injectors ect just a theory I may be wrong

well i was brousing another forum about the slow starter issue which contributes to flooding may not be the culprit but contributes to the problem,and these members has good luck with fixing there relay and resulted in no flooding...but thats what they say just some info i have gathered whether it be ye or ney Well, while all of those things are possible - my problem never returned after installing my own relay to the trigger on the solenoid. I never removed any from the circuit, I just added a relay so if it were caused (in my own case) by a faulty ground or loose connection then I should still experience the problem. But every time I turn the key to start the car turns over, period.

HimniRacing, we are dealing with old cars, not only that, but old cars with notorious wiring/soldering quality. I would definitely prefer to find the faulty component or wire and replace it in theory - but in practice it's been great to have the car turns over every time, regardless of the fact that I have some extra, ugly wires under the hood. If you are having sporadic voltage drop across the starter circuit then it's unlikey that your starter is the cause of it - now if your trigger always shows full battery voltage on "start" then I'd look for problems with the starter or solenoid, but if you're sometimes getting around 6 or 7 volts on the trigger lead there isn't inherently something wrong with the starter assembly.

My starter has 194k original miles on it - works like a champ. about 5 weeks ago my throwout/release bearing went out so my clutch was engaged all of the time. . . my starter pulled the car uphill, in gear, and started it. As I said, like a champ. Lucky for me there aren't any real "hlls" in south florida so it was just a few degrees of grade but i was still surprised that it started.


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#65 09-24-2004, 10:16 PM
RX-V8
Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mankato, Minnesota
Posts: 70

I may have a simple yet cheap solution to your problem. If its not, it wont hurt ya a bit, and your only out a few bucks.


Install a Ford starter relay. They take just a couple amps to operate, and they only cost somewhere around 10 bucks. Then you dont have to worry about the stock mazda relay and the cost to replace it. search google or something for ford starter solenoid conversions there are a ton of pages on it. Hope this helps you out. I have them on both of my cars, and i don't get a "no hot start" anymore.

Good luck. And for the love of god, try a new starter if nothing else. If you knew what they did to rebuild them you would laugh. Lotsa defective rebuilt ones.

NZConvertible

Guess which one of these is the real problem...?

dennis blackstone

well nz its not low compression because i tested it and a knew update i read that post about the starter trigger wire ...and so i put a relay on that wire today and guess what no more clickiing no more hotstarts ..fingers crossed and going to test it friday again my starter spins so fast now i put knew battery terminals too im praying friday it wont give me a hotstart so far it been good ,i went to stop and shop , came out it started right up ill take picks of my relay set up thanks guys and you nz helping out hailers thank you too

NZConvertible

I wasn't referring to your car, only to your list of contributors to flooding. It sounds like your engine wasn't flooding at all...