agallardo

This is what I want to know how to do? Anyone? Does that mean, I would have to disconnect the possitive and negative end of the fuel pump and plug it to a switch???

dennis blackstone

heres how to build the the swicth from rresurrections site its only an band aid the problem will still exsist..The "band aid" cure for cars which flood consistently is to install a toggle switch which will control the fuel pump. Note that the only cures for consistent flooding are cleaning/rebuilding injectors, rebuilding the engine, or finishing rebuild breakin. I like to install my cutoff switch right behind the keyhole in the lower column surround, but anywhere within easy reach will work. I use a toggle switch available at radio shack for about 2 dollar, called a rocker switch. IT is solid black, very slimline(maximum protrusion 1/8") and fits perfectly. You can use any toggle switch however.

1) Obtain the following: 2 prong, 2 position toggle switch, at least 2 feet length of 16-14 gauge wire, 2 female speaker terminal connectors(quick connect), 2 wire taps(vampire taps) and wire crimpers/strippers. Vampire taps join one wire beside another, when a metal strip gets pushed down connecting the 2 wires. A clean way to connect 2 wires.
2) Remove column cover and install the toggle switch in its position(or wherever else you want).
3) Locate the fuelpump relay under the dash. Located between the radio and the steering column, it is a black relay with a white, 5 wire plug.
4) Cut the fuelpump control wire: of the 5 wire plug, cut the middle wire of the 5.
5) Run wires from the toggle switch to each of the ends you just cut and connect them all. Which wire goes to which end does not matter, there is no polarity here, only continuity.
6) Put everything back together. Your switch is now installed.
7) To operate it, figure out which way is on and which is off. I like to orient off downward.
8) With the car running, turn the key off normally. Remove your key, and leave the switch alone.
9) When restarting, flip switch OFF, insert key, floor throttle, crank car, and it will likely start up. IMMEDIATELY as soon as the tach needle passes the 750rpm line flip the switch on. the ecu plays a role in the problem

dennis blackstone

heres an article i dug up on the transitor which may cause flooding,,,,,,,ECU Problems?
If you discovered that your ECU was not sending the correct signal from step 4, please contact me (via direct E-mail, pstoaks@savantage.com.) There is a fix and a work-around which I am writing up, but I would like to get a sense for how many people have experienced this failure. Rest assured, the fix costs a little time and less than $1.00. The workarounds take a little less time and still cost less than $10.00.
For those of you who are handy with electronics, the ECU fix is to replace the BAC valve output transistor. On my ECU (which is an N332), the transistor is T801, which is the last power transistor in line to the left of center of the ECU (on the bottom board.) If you have a different ECU, you can find the correct transistor by tracing the circuit with an ohm-meter, starting with connector pin 2Q (see the diagram in the shop manual). This pin is connected directly to the collector of the output transistor. (If you do this, please send me the info so I can get it in here for everyone else.) My transistor was an NEC D1309, which I couldn't cross reference. Since it is only wired as an open collector switch, though, close is good enough. I used a readily available TIP120 (NPN Darlington) and it worked great. Just desolder the old one and solder in the new one, and you're in business. The failure? Severe degredation of Hfe from heat. In my case, this was caused by the shorting of the BAC valve connector conductors. Another TeamFC3S member contracted what we believe to be this same problem after letting a service shop do a regularly scheduled tune-up! On two different cars! This suggests a potential problem in the diagnostic procedures used

dennis blackstone

could it be our old starters if you notice when you have the hotstart our engines crank slow i wonder if that has anything to do with it

agallardo

So would the rich/lean screw help out flooding problems too? Or would you guys rather put a toggle switch?

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

I have a switch on my fuel pump. I have the wires with the switch going up to my seat. I reach back flip the switch (turns the fuel pump off) and then start the car cranks a few times then starts back up. Then I flip the switch back.

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

I have excellent compression and cleaned/tested injectors, but my engine still floods once in a while if I don't shut it down by cutting the fuel.

agallardo

But I heard that my 87 TII has a rich/lean screw stock. Is this true? If so, would it help out with flooding?

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

no dont touch it.

dennis blackstone

i feel that when the engine gets hot and you shut it of that if you have a big fuel pump like a bosch or fd the pressure is so high that when you turn the key it floods the engine like no tommorow ,just a theory i may be wrong .id like to know how many stock rx7s without hotstart , or the theory of low compression leaky fuel injectors bad ecu ...i tell ya i wish some could come up with a solution ...hailers has some good ideas on this subject

psychotic7

when it comes down to it, it is a rotary.......they are a great smooth engine for cars but at the same time it probably has the worst combustion cycle. it wastes a ton of fuel and energy. not all the fuel gets burned, why do you think they backfire and flood so much. the main problem is the design, it is just so damn inefficient.

dennis blackstone

psychotic7 you are right these cars are so probomatic that it sometimes drives you nuts and us enthusiast are trying to hold onto these cars because when they are running good there a delight to drive but when they are giving trouble we hate them ... but thats why we have a forum so that experts can help us out with these troubled cars ....but i still love my 7 flooding is the number one headache if we could fix this problem.....we could have less fear driving to the corner store

dennis blackstone

hailers do you have a simple diagram of your chip to delay fuel on start up

dennis blackstone

could the high pressure from a walboro cause flooding?

thebigbluecan

Ha ha my car flooded today.... Sucks first time... Took out sparkplugs and there soaked. Tried the EFI fuse that didnt work so im going to try to get new plugs. Mabie the atf like in the faq.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I can see how this is possible. My N327 ecu on my nonturbo never had any flooding problems but my N332 on my T2 would have hot starting problems. Both cars have clean injectors and good compression, and both had upgraded fuel pumps (I actually had an FD pump in my nonturbo)

K-Tune

iTrader: (26)

my car never floods. 115psi front rotor, 110psi rear.

thebigbluecan

Well I fixed the flood.... Got new spark plugs and put less than a teaspoon of atf in there... Holy crap it started right up but man there was smoke pouring out of the exhaust for like 20 min. I thought for sure the cops would be called cause my neighbors hate me already ha ha

dennis blackstone

may these ecu,s are junk the n332 i wonder if rtec has a solution for us

NZConvertible

Never crank an engine for that long or you can cook the starter motor. Ten seconds max with a 20-30sec pause to cool down between attempts.

The solenoid is only energised during cranking if both the intake and engine coolant temps are very high (i.e. a heat-soaked engine). If the FPR solenoid valve isn't energised then the FPR works normally. If the solenoid is energised fuel pressure is increased, which might cause flooding in a low-compression engine.

Flooding is not caused by spark plugs, so no.

No, the problem is not the ECU. The ECU is programmed to start and run a healthy engine, not one with low compression. Hailers' trick with the ECU's start signal is a clever one but it's still just a hack to get around the fact that the engine is knackered.

If the fuel pressure is greater than normal then the chances of flooding are proportionally higher. If you're putting in big fuel pumps you should be compensating with an adjustable FPR anyway. Rewiring the fuel pump alone is not going to be enough to cause a problem.

Ah no, that's not how EFI works. When the ignition is turned off the injectors stop firing, so no fuel can get into the chambers (unless the injectors are leaking, which is another common cause of flooding).

The variable resistor only adjusts idle mixture. There is nothing on the car that can compensate for bigger injectors. You shouldn't install bigger injectors without some form of fuel control.

No.

No, as before that's not how EFI works.

It's not a theory, it's a well-proven fact. Engines need a well-sealed chamber to be able to build enough compression to start, and oil thin layer on all internal surfaces of the chamber help keep that seal. They also need a lot more fuel to start compared to normal running, which why all ECU's have specific cranking fuel maps. The fuel injected during cranking removes some of the oil layer, but in a healthy engine this is not a problem. In a low-compression engine it lowers the compression below the point where starting is possible. That's why all of the band-aid "fixes" for flooding involve lowering the amount of fuel injected during cranking.

Did you miss the bit about rebuilding the engine? In most cases that is the solution.

If an adjustable FPR is not used to reduce the static pressure to stock levels, yes. As Hailers said the injector pulsewidths during cranking are fixed based on temp only, so increased fuel pressure will caused increased fuel flow which will increase the chance of flooding. Even a healthy engine will flood if you crank it with too much fuel.

Don't use ATF. Engine oil is for engines, ATF is for automatic gearboxes. The names are a clue...

thebigbluecan

"My car doesn't start
Remember when starting a fuel injected car you should never pump or press the accellerator pedal, but if it won't start it is probably flooded, Hold the accelerator pedal all the way down while cranking, do not pump the pedal. If it still doesn't start after a few tries, Then remove the EGI fuse and crank a couple more times, then re-install the fuse and try starting again. If then the car still fails to start it then you need to remove and clean the spark plugs, put in a teaspoon of ATF into the lower sparkplug holes, re-install the spark plugs and try again. Make sure you change your oil after you have started and run the car ASAP."



In the FAQ of second Gen RX7 "ATF" is in there.. So your saying Icemark is wrong? By the way my car flooded because I had my friend start it and he was Holding the key to start without pushing the clutch for like 10 seconds. I agree with you about the compression. I still gotta check mine

NZConvertible

I'm saying there's no good reason to use ATF in an engine. The engine won't start because the thin layer of engine oil I mentioned above has been partially washed away. The obvious replacement is more engine oil. I'd suggest the FAQ be changed.

ATF is like the Energizer bunny of myths. It just keeps going and going...

Also if you had smoke pouring out for 20 minutes, you used way too much. Small squirt cans are perfect for this. One squirt of oil per chamber is plenty and burns off quickly.

thebigbluecan

That makes sense.... I didn't put too much in tho.. I used one of them pip-pet things that are like in science classes; and half a teaspoon in each.. Probably a teaspoon altogether in Both rotors.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

Once again...for those still debating the issue:

Causes/fixes for flooding:

1. Check compression with cold and warm engine. If it's low, there's your most likely flooding problem. If compression is fine, keep reading.

2. Follow FSM, pull out injectors and fuel rails. Wire tie injectors to fuel rails, jumper yellow fuel pump connector near AFM and Boost Sensor, and see if they leak. If yes, get them cleaned/fixed.

3. Other causes which are less likely. I'll let the experts elaborate.

Band-aids, good ones, but band-aids nonetheless:

1. Easiest one is to put a switch in-line between the circuit opening relay and the fuel pump. Blue/red_stripe wire on the circuit opening relay plug. Make sure the switch can stand up to the fuel pump current, or wire a relay in.

2. Mazdatrix solution listed already. Don't like extra parts in my car, but whatever.

3. Hole in the fuel line. Mentioned - more specifically, the hole is not outside, spilling fuel on the ground. It is on the line between the fuel pump and the pump cover, so fuel will leak back inside the tank. A similar option is to mess with the pump itself and a part that functions like a one-way valve.

Oh, it's worth mentioning again:

- the S5's cut off the fuel when starting if you hold the gas all the way.

- the variable resistor near the boost sensor on S4's is for IDLE fuel only.

- performance fuel pumps should be used along with an adjustable FPR. The ECU's maps for the injector pulse width assume a certain fuel rail pressure. A properly functioning ECU is not the cause of flooding, but it won't help if there are other problems.

BTW, the poster with the FPR loose vacuum hose problem...did you take a picture? The hose is L-shaped and there should be a small metal line on the rat's nest sticking up below it for it.

Attos

I had a flooding problem some days ago when I ran out of gas, and then stupidly poured 5 gal of water into the gas tank instead of gasoline!!! -ha ha ha, I guess I also wanted to save money on gas.

I found a gasoline jug around the house and, since it was full, I just assumed it was gasoline. So, after I realized what I had done I just followed the procedure of removing the plugs and injecting transmission oil with a syringe, etc etc.

Engine started back with no problem. The only thing is that, since then, it has some degree of hesitation. I replaced the spark plugs and now it runs much better, but still has some hesitation. I guess I need to do some injector cleaning.