hks wastegate questions
01-09-14, 02:41 AM
#1
hks wastegate questions
i recently got a deal i couldnt pass up on this hks cast mani and it came with this wastegate which appears to be authentic but i know there are a lot of ebay reps these days. can anyone verify if 1-its real and 2- how much its worth if i sold it. did a quick ebay search and didnt find much. i was planning on going tial 44
01-09-14, 08:31 AM
#3
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You will need an adapter anyway if you go to a Tial 44..Banzai sells them at 90 bucks a crack.
By the way the hole on the cast manifold is smaller that what the wastegate will flow so you may want to enlarge it with a dremel if you do this.
By the way the hole on the cast manifold is smaller that what the wastegate will flow so you may want to enlarge it with a dremel if you do this.
01-09-14, 11:04 AM
#5
first check clearance, the adapter adds almost an inch , wasnt going to work for my DP and I wasnt going to make an adapter for an adapter. The HKS gate happens to be pretty compact for what it is
just curious though- why go to the tial? do you already own one?
just curious though- why go to the tial? do you already own one?
01-09-14, 01:11 PM
#6
The new Tial MVR (44mm) is .674" shorter than the old V44.
Does not sound like PremiumRice has the HKS turbo or down pipe, just the manifold and WG. This means he will be making a custom DP for whatever turbo he decides to go with so clearance would not come into play.
Value is whatever someone is willing to pay. I will not run the 38mm standard HKS WG, the outlet is only really 32mm which causes boost creep on most of the turbos that my customers want to use. The Tail MVR is a great all around WG easily capable of controlling boost on mid frame BB turbos (GT35R, T04Z, Etc)
Does not sound like PremiumRice has the HKS turbo or down pipe, just the manifold and WG. This means he will be making a custom DP for whatever turbo he decides to go with so clearance would not come into play.
Value is whatever someone is willing to pay. I will not run the 38mm standard HKS WG, the outlet is only really 32mm which causes boost creep on most of the turbos that my customers want to use. The Tail MVR is a great all around WG easily capable of controlling boost on mid frame BB turbos (GT35R, T04Z, Etc)
01-09-14, 01:19 PM
#7
the manifold usually runs $200-ish used. the wastegate is probably worth about $50 since it is old and probably needs to be rebuilt as well as very small for todays turbos.
whether it is real or fake has little impact on its value now, it appears authentic but even the knockoffs sell for $400 new and the quality is still respectable between the 2.
so in all its market value is about $250-300 as a pair.
whether it is real or fake has little impact on its value now, it appears authentic but even the knockoffs sell for $400 new and the quality is still respectable between the 2.
so in all its market value is about $250-300 as a pair.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-09-14 at 01:23 PM.
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01-09-14, 01:40 PM
#8
The new Tial MVR (44mm) is .674" shorter than the old V44.
Does not sound like PremiumRice has the HKS turbo or down pipe, just the manifold and WG. This means he will be making a custom DP for whatever turbo he decides to go with so clearance would not come into play.
Value is whatever someone is willing to pay. I will not run the 38mm standard HKS WG, the outlet is only really 32mm which causes boost creep on most of the turbos that my customers want to use. The Tail MVR is a great all around WG easily capable of controlling boost on mid frame BB turbos (GT35R, T04Z, Etc)
Does not sound like PremiumRice has the HKS turbo or down pipe, just the manifold and WG. This means he will be making a custom DP for whatever turbo he decides to go with so clearance would not come into play.
Value is whatever someone is willing to pay. I will not run the 38mm standard HKS WG, the outlet is only really 32mm which causes boost creep on most of the turbos that my customers want to use. The Tail MVR is a great all around WG easily capable of controlling boost on mid frame BB turbos (GT35R, T04Z, Etc)
I really wanted to but didnt have the room just with a ruler it was going to be sitting right on the DP.
I wonder what his set up is, in my case I had a few concerns:
my turbo is maxed out, it doesnt make me anymore power for the rest of my setup, if I change turbos Im changing manifold, WG, and possibly the DP. So FOR ME to invest more money into a turbo set up that has taken me as far as I can get made no point.
We dont know what his set up is or why he wants to change the gate out, like me he could be running a smaller turbo that will be just fine with that WG he has now.
01-09-14, 09:06 PM
#9
one of these just sold in the FS section for 125 so that gives me something to go off of. most likely will be making a custom down pipe for this. im switching to larger wg to not have to deal with creep like a lot of my friends have had happen even on small turbos and boost.
bansai ill be hitting you guys up shortly
bansai ill be hitting you guys up shortly
01-10-14, 04:39 PM
#15
Small journal bearing T04B + small 38mm WG = no creep
BB GT35R + small 38mm WG = uncontrollable creep
My FC at the same 15psi boost makes 110rwhp more than yours.
In the past we have run small 60-1 (similar to your T04B) with the 38mm HKS standard without creep issues, luck has nothing to do with it.
Does that explain it or are you still looking for an argument Rob?
01-10-14, 04:44 PM
#16
it didn't sound like he was trying to pick a fight but perhaps just didn't understand that the wastegate size reflects onto the turbo size.
a larger turbo pushes more airflow through the engine and again through the exhaust feeding directly on itself. the wastegate size does not reflect solely on the size of the turbine, meaning a larger turbine doesn't need a smaller gate to produce more boost through the same manifold but quite the opposite. the more lbs/min the turbo pushes the larger the gate needs to be in order to control boost, and not all gates are created equally in how well they can vent the exhaust(one 44mm gate may produce creep, another more refined deign may not).
these old school parts are not exactly good performers. the wastegate dump off the manifold is inferior requiring a larger gate than average, the gate itself flows poorly and is restrictive. decent for high boost or smaller framed turbos, not good for boost control. about the only real thing it has going for it is it is cast iron and the manifold is virtually bulletproof.
a larger turbo pushes more airflow through the engine and again through the exhaust feeding directly on itself. the wastegate size does not reflect solely on the size of the turbine, meaning a larger turbine doesn't need a smaller gate to produce more boost through the same manifold but quite the opposite. the more lbs/min the turbo pushes the larger the gate needs to be in order to control boost, and not all gates are created equally in how well they can vent the exhaust(one 44mm gate may produce creep, another more refined deign may not).
these old school parts are not exactly good performers. the wastegate dump off the manifold is inferior requiring a larger gate than average, the gate itself flows poorly and is restrictive. decent for high boost or smaller framed turbos, not good for boost control. about the only real thing it has going for it is it is cast iron and the manifold is virtually bulletproof.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-10-14 at 04:56 PM.
01-10-14, 05:02 PM
#17
I just wouldn't put too much more time, effort, or money into that manifold set up. I do agree It can be argued that the tial can be salvaged into another set up and all he would be out is the adapter but personally I wouldnt be fabricating a DP and adapting another WG onto that manifold I would have used it "as-is" best I could and went onto something else. It costs him nothing right now to at least try it as-is and if it does creep then he is no worse for wear
If exchanging advice and discussing the topic is arguing with you then Im sorry.
01-10-14, 05:10 PM
#18
fabricating a downpipe is usually accepted whenever you assemble parts that are not all from the same kit.
a screamer pipe or no flange at all to test it initially before plumbing in the wastegate is perfectly fine, but an atmospheric dump may cause creep when plumbed into the downpipe where it may not have been when dumped.
fabricating a downpipe is not a difficult job, especially if you already have a downpipe that you can tap into with a simple header off the turbo.
a screamer pipe or no flange at all to test it initially before plumbing in the wastegate is perfectly fine, but an atmospheric dump may cause creep when plumbed into the downpipe where it may not have been when dumped.
fabricating a downpipe is not a difficult job, especially if you already have a downpipe that you can tap into with a simple header off the turbo.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-10-14 at 05:14 PM.
01-10-14, 09:01 PM
#19
FWIW, I had that setup with a Garrett T67/T04R .84. It would creep when it was cold out. I have since moved on to a 50MM gate (same style authentic HKS) and a 1.06 hotside. I no longer have creep. A open atmosphere dump tube has been used in both cases. I run 18psi.
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