vespafitz

Hi Folks:

My name is Craig Fitzgerald and I'm the editor at Hemmings Sports & Exotic Car.

I'm currently working on a Buyer's Guide for the 1988 to 1991 RX-7 Convertible that's going to appear in our December issue, and I was wondering if I could get some help from you folks, since you know these cars a lot better than I do.

(I had a 1990 GXL hardtop, but that was around the time electric light bulbs were invented, and I've forgotten more than I knew in the first place.)

I'm reading all the FAQs here, and I'll definitely include FC forum as a resource in our guide. Thanks for being such a great resource!

We like to include things like model-specific specialists in our guides. Any recommendations you can give me for shops or aftermarket suppliers that might be helpful?

Thanks in advance. I know I'll have more questions as I get deeper into this.

Craig Fitzgerald
Editor
Hemmings Sports & Exotic Car
cfitzgerald (at) hemmings.com

1SWEET7

iTrader: (1)

There has been problems with the FAQ lately because the member who hosted most of it has passed on. That said they are still very useful. I think it is great that you will be doing a buyers guide for the Verts. There are plenty of very knowledgeable people on here and I am sure you will get the info you're after.

vespafitz

Yeah, I gathered that from the homepage. Sad.

Thanks!

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Hi Craig,

First of all, I love your magazine and have been a subscriber since Issue No. 1. I think you will find there is a lot of great information on this site for you to peruse.

Regarding RX-7-specific suppliers, the two big names are the same now as they were when you were last an RX-7 owner: Racing Beat and Mazdatrix. Both supply aftermarket upgrade parts, and Mazdatrix also sells OEM replacement parts at prices that are competitive with some Mazda dealerships. Of course we are also pretty fortunate that Mazda still carries most OEM parts for the '86-92 cars (including the Convertible). Black Dragon, a part of Victoria British, also offers many RX-7 parts (as well as Nissan Z stuff). Some of these are simply Mazda OEM parts, while others are less-expensive aftermarket bits. The experience of forum members with these non-Mazda parts has been mixed; I have not yet bought from them, but have seen a few threads about ill-fitting bumper covers and body parts, etc. You might want to do a search here to read more on that. Rotary Performance of Garland, TX (rx-7.com) has been doing mail-order business over the Internet for years and is another source for aftermarket performance upgrade parts.

There are many reputable engine rebuilders and RX-7-specific performance shops. It would be difficult to name them all, but some of the older ones include Atkins, KDR Performance, and Pineapple Racing. Mazdatrix also offers engine rebuilding. To be fair, there are apparently many other good ones which you'll find if you do some additional reading on this site.

Although not RX-7-specific vendors, there are also aftermarket sources for molded carpet sets, seat covers, and convertible top parts, though at least the convertible top parts are still available directly from Mazda.

-David

vespafitz

Great info, thanks David, and thanks for the compliments on the magazine. We have a blast putting it together every month. It sure beats selling shoes for a living.

What's the going rate for a convertible these days? I remember them being pretty spendy when I had mine, but they've gotta be in the $7,500 to $8,500 range now, right? I can't believe that they're 20 years old now. Cripes, I'm old.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

You will find that nobody on this site would pay that kind of money for any RX-7. No offense to my rx7club.com brothers and sisters, but we're a very cheap lot. Second Gen RX-7 fans haven't found a wide collector audience yet, so they are still the playthings of the thrifty. Maybe if you found a mint Convertible with 20,000 miles on it, etc., and full documentation, but even then I'd bet people here would say $6000-7000 tops. The price for a nice driver quality car is probably more in the $4000 range. That said, you do see them listed on eBay, Autotrader and Craigslist for more money all the time. Do they sell for that much? I don't know. Will they be the first RX-7 to be embraced by collectors someday? Probably.

I think you tend to see more well-preserved Convertibles than you do NA Coupes or Turbo cars. Many of the original buyers were older and more affluent since these were the most expensive (and slowest because of all the extra weight) RX-7s available. Thus, you'll see a lot of one-owner convertibles. Also because of their extra weight and open top, fewer have been hacked up or used as race cars.

87 t-66

iTrader: (133)

i bought my s5 vert for $2200 w/ 120k miles (i think) on it. solid running, RB exhaust, clean top, black interior, carbon fiber hood, short shifter. i think for someone to pay over $6k for a vert it would need to have <15k miles or a beastly turbo swap.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I can find super clean convertibles all day. A local dealership had an 89 with 20k original miles on it (automatic though), and they wanted 11k. He saw me looking under the hood of it (it was in their showroom) and asked what I thought of the price as an Rx-7 owner. I told him good luck, not for an automatic will you ever get that price.

Automatic Rx-7's are worth nothing. Nobody wants them, no matter what generation of car (1st through 3rd). Those who have them either do a manual transmission swap or get made fun of. It's also somewhat common for people to swap turbo parts into convertibles. The extra power helps make up for the weight. The result is a more all-around cruiser type of car.

Common problems... the top rips. The headrest speakers fail. Then you would have to list all the basic Rx-7 electrical problems: the wiper switch is the most common (only works on one speed), but then the clock usually goes out. Also the headlight switches can fail due to a high resistance connection. The most common problems people have engine wise would probably be idle or emissions problems. Also, if the nonturbo car is never driven hard the auxiliary port system can stick due to carbon. It's kind of like a VTEC Honda Civic not hitting VTEC anymore. And just like the Civic, it goes from ****-slow to ***-slow. There is also a recall on the motorized seatbelts in the 89+ models. A lot of these problems are covered in the FAQ.

the character of the Rx-7 Convertible is a lot different from its contemporary, the Miata. There is way more comfort and style. The handling prowess is there to an extent but it's not a go-kart like the Miata.

I don't know if you want to mention the leaky pulsation dampener/fuel rail problem either (possible engine fire).

eage8

iTrader: (9)

^convertibles don't have automatic seat belts

openrx

actually they are OVER 21 years old now.

purchased mine in march 88 new, after taking a dealer demo car for a ride.

loved EVERYTHING about it, including the nonconforming engine.

i kept thinking about the 80 cubic inch displacement being roughly the same as my 71 vw super beetle, but with 100 MORE hp.

and a normally aspirated engine that redlined at 7,000 rpms was 'exotic' then.

the 0-60 time was good for the 80s (9 sec?) but the handling was equal to or better than ANY other production car of that era.

and especially for a convertible.

compared to the mustang, camaro, corvette, jag and other topless cars from that year, the rx7 chassis was rock solid.

i cross shopped the alfa spider and the bmw 3 series convertibles also.

the alfa had a 'live' rear axle, OLD handling, and MUCH crappier interior bits and build quality.

the bmw was nice but more money, and not a real 2 seater. the handling was not as good and the shape was not appealing.

the rx7 was almost perfect and SO much nicer looking than the competition.

during the first year of ownership (in seattle), the 7 turned more heads than a naked roller skater!

i carried a custom fit cover and used it parking downtown just to keep folks from groping the car...

paid 22,000$ which is approx 40k$ in current money.

the topless 7 was the top priced mazda and those guys in japan REALLY put their hearts and expertise into building these cars.

fit and finish was and is still amazing. the top was and is still as tight as the goddess artemis, and everything still works.
________________

my ongoing costs (over 21 years of ownership) have been fluids, rubber, light bulbs, wax and one clutch.

that's pretty damn good for a real 2 seat sports car.

so what's it worth now? well that depends on the reference point.

yes it is slower than the turbo 7s, but that's a bonus in terms of reliability for a older car.

yes the japanese got turbo verts (called the cabriolet model in japan) but WE didn't know and didn't care about that 20 years ago.

buyers were led to believe production was limited, which wasn't exactly true.

turns out about 5000 were exported to north america for 1988 year alone.

and about 5-6000 for the 89-81 edition.

so it's not that rare and a bunch of them still exist.

i like the 88 (s4) better than the 89-91 (s5) version which seems to have more finicky electronics.

88s have no airbags and no abs and mechanical metering oil pumps.

and current owners benefit from the relatively large number of hard top 7s produced during those years.

since LOTS of parts are still widely available.

the buyers NOW tend to be much younger and have many more options in cars.

folks also now want faster or more fuel efficient or more techno...

THIS CROWD is tough, because there are so many savy (tight wads) folks here and sharing/connecting is much easier now.

i've been offered up to 10k for mine, several times but suspect 4-6K$ is the top end for all but a few select cars.

every year i drive new//newer potential topless replacements and every time,the same thoughts recur ...

1. i am SO glad i didn't get that red alfa romeo
2. the 88 rx7 still handles great and is still as tight as artemis
3. i'd have to spend 35k$+ now to get basically the same great ride, in a much less interesting (and depreciating) package...
4. totally stock, this car is still pleasing to look at and fun to drive and she still turns heads.

so mine isn't for sale at any sensible price, at least for now.

and besides, what else is there from 1988 that has potential in the collector car market?

cheers
henry

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I love hearing from original owners.

In the internet age, anything that happened before about 2002 or so (when car forums really came into their own) is barely part of the collective memory and seems almost prehistoric--even though it really wasn't that long ago.

When working on the car I often ask myself: "how the **** did people know how to approach x problem before the internet?" it's hard enough with all the crap you read online.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Agreed. Back in the pre-Internet days, it was a little challenging being an RX-7 owner since they weren't all that common. When I bought my first one in the fall of '95, Mazda had just announced its plans to cancel the FD. The first few years involved a lot of flipping through my Haynes manual and trusting the Mazda dealership. In '98 I found a good local RX-7 club which was about the best thing that could have happened.

vespafitz

Henry:

thanks for the great info you posted. I was going to ask about production figs but you beat me to it. Sorry for any typos, I'm on the road with my iPhone.

H

openrx

typos? i LIKE typos, as sam said..."I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way."

production stats are shrouded in vagueness,

to my knowledge MAZDA has never released actual numbers for ANY specific rx7 model, including the convertibles.

most agree that the 91 (last domestic year) was around 1500 or less and that the total for s5 models (89-91) was 5-6k.

for many years i believed the common knowledge that 88 (s4) was ~2k topless units, but later (internet) data suggests 5,000 or so came over.

i think those figures include canadian cars too, where they are called maaaaaazdas.

the overall rx7 production/domestic units ARE known year by year and published.

mazda confused the issue some because 'model year' wasn't exactly 12 months with some years 15 months and others as short as 9.

i'm sure others here have better info than i.

henry.

Jimmy2222

iTrader: (3)

Don't have much info on verts, but I doubt anybody in there right mind would pay $8k for an FC, maybe if it was immaculate with very few original miles or a 10th AE or something of that nature as previously stated. I bought my S5 T2 for $4k Canadian from the Original owner for 19 years, had a Racing Beat exhaust and HKS intake, stored over winter and under 90k miles. But then again, you were just ball-parking, no harm, no foul.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

For that matter, my understanding is that Mazda never tracked individual model sales by model year, but rather by calendar year. Another complicating factor is that the model year runs did not always begin and end at the same time every year, as openrx notes. From the FAQ:

Build dates by serial number:
Model year-----Production Date----Serial Number
1986--------------8/85 - 6/86------100001-200000
1987--------------6/86 - 7/87------500001-600000
1988-------------7/87 - 12/88-----600001-700000
1989------------12/88 - 12/89-----700001-800000
1990------------12/89 - 11-90-----800001-900000
1991--------------8/90 - 7/91------900001-950000

(I'm not sure where Icemark got these dates and I'm not sure they're 100% accurate, because my old '90 had a build date on the door jamb sticker of 11/89, confirmed by the dealership in their computer as "11/01/89." This doesn't quite fit within the specified range.)

Dltreezan

iTrader: (3)

Why don't you post a list of your questions and we can all have differing answers for you that you can glean. This may help you better. I think it is awesome to see a one owner guy here.

ViperBart

iTrader: (3)

http://www.motoringtv.com/watch-moto...127899&yr=1988

What you are looking for starts right after 06:30.

openrx

nice video time warp 'bart.

it's sorta scary since that guy could be me, 20 years ago without the brit accent.

i've got some views on the performance side of the convertible and where it FIT in the cars from that era i'll post later.

but craig is doing a "buyer's guide" so i'll add some of the hopefully useful info a buyer might need...

1. the 88 was based on the s4 2nd generation, while the 89-91 was an s5/2nd generation.

all of the relevant differences (s4/s5) are covered in the faqs.

2. the paint was IMPROVED in 89 when they started 'rotating' the cars to apply paint. this allowed for THICKER paint without runs.

the color options were red, white, blue, and silver BUT the actual paint codes are DIFFERENT for 88 vs 89-91. black was added in 89 i think.

3. the interior colors were blue (wt or blue paint) or gray (silver, red, black paints)

4. convertibles all came with STIFFER suspension bits, 4 pot ft brakes and WITHOUT limited slip differentials.

5. the 5 speed manual was the standard transmission, with an auto available in 89 or very late in 88.

6. base price was ~21,100 in 88, but with options could climb to ~25,000k...

in 88 most URBAN dealers were adding 3-5,000$ to the base price because of DEMAND.

i purchased by phone from a small rural dealer (<10 miles on the odo), flew one way and drove the car home, and paid about 5-6k LESS than the urban dealer wanted.

7. the 'standard' convertible came with CLOTH (herringbone velour) seats a radio/cassette player with 100 watt amp, non tilt steering wheel, bbs rims, electric top, carpet, electric windows and mirrors, NO ac and an 'anti-theft alarm system'.

only a small number of cars came with this STANDARD package.

8. the 'premium package option' added leather seats and door inserts, leather steering wheel with TILT, cruise control, speakers IN the headrests, compact disc/cassette/radio, 6 speakers, 100 watt amp, illuminated driver door lock and ignition key light.

the 'premium package option' was ~2100$

9. a/c was the only other option, ~`1200$ on either standard/cloth or upgraded/leather cars and either factory OR dealer installed.

floor mats, padded center arm rest were common accessories.

10. so the base car at 21,100 was just under 25,000$ fully loaded.

11. the warranty was 3yrs/50,000 miles, much longer than many other cars and used to promote the "reliability" of the rotary drivetrain.

for comparison, the bmw 325i convertible was ~33,000$ with a 3yr/36,000 mile warranty,

and a corvette convertible was 35,000$ with a 1 year/12,000 mile warranty

ok that's enough for now,

i'll touch on some first hand performance issues when the cars were NEW in another post, along with ISSUES to watch for buying used, now.

henry

an earlier post asked about how we managed pre internet...

well, we had the rx7 club of america and their publication, "the rotary rocket" magazine...

the rotary rocket had articles on REMOVING the pre silencer and cats for more HORSEPOWER and a 'member/letter section' called the "FORUMS"

no kidding...

-racing beat and hks were big players in the upgrade/performance arena and microlon or bardahl #1 were the MAJOR/magic oil additives.

-redline was the exotic synthetic oil used for racing with castrol gtx 20-50 the most commonly used oil by enthusiasts.

-KAMINARI made body kits using "computers" to get the best aerodynamics and fit.

-the fumoto oil drain valve/plug was a "mazda factory approved" accessory...

and the women all wore HOT PANTS and had farrah fawcett hair...

henry