projekt

This week's new problem:

Starting a cold engine is a pain. It's stumbles, dies and revs like when I used to let it sip water (old water trick). Makes a lot of white smoke for a minute or so. I figure bad water seal. This started when I got back to AR from a week vacation in FL. It was sitting in the airport lot in cold temps.

It doesn't smoke at all though once warm so I'm assuming that it's just the residual pressure forcing water past the seals allowing it to build up. I have been cranking it at first with the gas pedal down to try to get some of the water out before I let fuel in and it seems to work.

I'm changing the thermostat and cap this weekend as well as flushing the coolant. I was thinking that the thermostat might not be letting the pressure out of the engine, but I might not completely understand how that all works. It seems strange to me that this would just start happening after letting the car sit for a week.

edit: Forgot to add that the add coolant buzzer has gone off a few times and I think I'm getting air in the system.

So am I screwed?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The thermostat has nothing to do with coolant loop pressure, that's handled by the radiator cap.
Furthermore, pressure is a function of temperature, so if the engine is cold, there is no "residual pressure" to worry about.

Your weather in Ark. is not nearly extreme enough to cause a mechanical/physical problem.
Your temporary smoke issue could be just condensation in the exhaust as it cools or perhaps leaky injectors bleeding down into the engine after shutoff.

Go48

iTrader: (7)

Smoke may look white, as in coolant, but could be a combination of water vapor/fuel/oil. Remove the leading plugs when this happens again and look for fluid on them. Don't wait until the engine starts, but crank it over until you are certain the same situation is happening. Is there fluid on the plugs? Does it look like coolant (watery) or is it fuel-oil? That may tell you where the problem lies.

As far as the coolant buzzer goes, are you adding coolant to the radiator when this happens? If the coolant level is dropping in the radiator and there is no obvious sign of leakage, you may have a seal problem. Otherwise it may be a sensor problem or air in the system (particularly if you have recently replaced the coolant). Have a pressure test and/or dye test done to check for leaks or seal problem.

projekt

I'll be replacing the radiator cap as well this weekend. Both parts haven't been changed since I've owned the car (almost 8 years) so they're due anyway.

The temporary smoke by itself I'm used to, it's the hard starting (acts sort of like it's flooded) followed by the thick cloud that worries me. It's dark when I've been starting it so I can't tell the color of it, but it doesn't smell too sweet nor too smokey. I premix though and my normal cold exhaust smells kind of funny anyway.

I'm getting air in the system but I'm worried that it's exhaust slipping past a bad water seal. The buzzer (and eventually the light) went off twice on my drive home yesterday. The first time I stopped and added a little coolant to top it off. It wasn't very low at all and when I pulled the cap it steamed me, but no coolant rushed out. The second time it happened it went off on its own after a few seconds. If it were just the buzzer/light I would assume the sensor was acting up but since it starts like crap I'm worried.

I'll go check it out a bit during lunch today. Should I be topping off the coolant with the engine running or with it off and cold?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

If the coolant is hot, you can't remove the rad cap to fill, so any filling would be into the reservoir.
If it's cold, fill the rad and top off the reservoir if necessary.

I would suspect leaky injectors or low compression to be the cause of hard starting.

projekt

I mean open the cap, turn on the engine and add coolant vs. just opening the cap and filling. Not while the engine has warmed up.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Oh.
Just crack the cap and fill, no need for the engine to be running.

wjk0817

iTrader: (3)

Agree, leaky injectors

projekt

Ok started it up just now at lunch. very slight stuttering and almost no smoke.

So it's probable that I'm chasing two different problems that appeared at the same time?

projekt

I swapped the radiator cap for a new one this past weekend. Was running beautifully and the past two very cold days startups were fine.

Tonight the low coolant buzzer came back on. Stopped, opened cap, very dry. Added about 8 oz coolant and looked at the overflow. It was very very full. So it would seem I'm pushing coolant out but not sucking it back in.

Got back home and checked it after constant buzzer going on and off periodically on the way home. Coolant low again, overflow overflowing. I tried to smell the fumes coming out of the filler neck but couldn't determine if it was burnt coolant from possibly boiling or exhaust.

Any more ideas?

EnjoiPugs

I'm going to be the one to tell you this. I'm sorry, but I think it's a blown coolant seal. Try looking up the "champagne test". Could also be a break in the line to the reservoir? Or use a pressure tester to see if you have a leak, if it's losing pressure and coolant comes out from the spark plug holes you'll know that you have a blown seal.

projekt

I did a pressure test last week. Set it to 15psi per the FSM and let it sit. After a few minutes it slowly started dropping but stopped at 13psi and didn't move anymore.

projekt

Now I have a leaking thermostat neck. I can't seem to get it back together properly because the thermostat slides down from the center and when I torque the neck back on it's apparently not on the O ring. Not to mention the O ring itself is almost the same size as the groove and barely looks like it will seal anyway.

jimmydanny

I have the same issue, but new plugs fixed that (the starting problem).

As for the smoke, I park the car in a carport, which holds maybe 0 degrees Celcius (32F), but the ambient was around -5 degrees Celcius (dunno Farenheit, maybe 25 something?)

That made my car smoke like hell, lots of condensation.

Cratecruncher

FWIW, sounds like a water seal beginning to leak like mine did. My first block started doing the hard to start/white smoke thing and over time got a little worse each week. I drove it for 2 or 3 months before replacing the block with a rebuild. Mine never got bad enough to push water into the reservoir but it was down on power and I had to add water every few days. I figure after I would shut it down the residual pressure in the cooling system would leak a bit of water into the combustion chambers making it hard to start next time.

LunchboxCritter

iTrader: (9)

If your coolant is filling up the overflow tank then I would suggest that you replace the thermostat.

projekt

Got the new thermostat in there properly. I'm a doof and didn't wrap the rubber gasket around it. No leaking from the thermostat housing but I know there's still air in the system and it's a pita to get out. The Stant thermostat I've got in there now doesn't have an air bleed hole.

projekt

Any ideas about the buzzer coming on for about 30 sec, then off for 30 then on for 30? All of this happens without the add coolant (or oil) light coming on. I know the connector on top of the radiator's wiring is corroded so I'll be cleaning that tomorrow.

projekt

Just ran it for about 40 minutes with a Lisle radiator funnel on it. Cold there wasn't much for bubbles. While warm, fairly large bubbles kept coming up to the surface. When I shut it off, the upper hose was full of air so I squeezed as much out as I could before removing the Lisle funnel. That's pretty bad, huh?

I really hate that Mazda didn't put the radiator cap all the way on top of the cooling system. With the way that the upper hose is a large bubble could get trapped up there while allowing coolant to pass by.

projekt

Water in the front housing. This year sucks.

teganp

i had the same problem in my 88 fc n/a. saturday morning got out of bed and pulled the rad cap off (WHEN THE CAR IS COLD!) ran the car for a good 20 minutes (this will move the coolant around) and will theoretically push the bubbles out of te system. (same way a garage will fill new coolant..at least my shop does)
I am not sure if my car has added coolant cap or is a stock thing, meaning i have 2 rad caps. 1 on the rad, as well as one coming out of the coolant pump. if you have one above the pump use that one since it is the highest point on the system. as I did this a bunch of bubbles came out and my resevoir level dropped a bunch. ....no more air!

teganp

i shoulda mentioned my problem was only air into the coolant system, and not bad starting.

durtled

coolant seal surprised its not overheating also mine is/was doing the same thing i don't drive it atm cause im doing a swap as soon as i get my taxes but it was pushing coolant into the overflow bad in the summer. if i was u i would not use that thermostat u bought or gut it cause its not ideal.

VermontRX7

iTrader: (3)

Why do I keep hearing ppl say "oh its cold out" thats probably my cars problem.
Man its below 0 degrees farenheit here in vermont most EVERYNIGHT (maybe 10-15 degrees above in the day, & my RX (s4), cranks and starts everyday, always first try also, even when its -15 farenheit outside. No smoke, no long cranks. Cold will make it crank slower, but should not (in a good running car) have any affect other than slow cranks. If your having problems starting in cold, its something other than the cold.
That's my .02 cents.