rxse7en

I'm eventually going to upgrade my turbo but in the interim, I was wondering what the power gains would be if I went to a FMIC. What would I gain besides a detonation prevention? What would the power gains be if a FMIC was one's first mod on a stock TII?


Thanks all,
B

rotary>piston

it's a lot more cost effective to upgrade the exhaust. An FMIC on stock boost wouldn't do much.

rxse7en

Understood. I'm just curious as to what the gains are of a FMIC alone and on my modded S5 TII.

Thanks all,
B

AE_Racer

iTrader: (1)

FMIC will not give hardly any gains, if at all...The stock IC should be efficient for what you have

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

the guy I bought my tII from just took the top mounted intercooler and made some longer piping for it and moved it to the front. something you might want to try

razorback

do yo have a pic of it hondahater?

evileagle

iTrader: (1)

you won't see any power gains. infact, you'll probably lose a bit of low end, but the high end will be nicer. Yes, you'll also have less detonation worries.

chris-reedtn

You will gain some power but loose some. DOnt be trying to rig up your stock fmic in the front, what the hell is the purpose of that, you have the same intercooler, just at a different place with alot of time putting it there and no real power gains, We took a raytec temp guage and made a run down the interstate, and pulled over and shot it. It was pretty low, i dont remember exactly but pretty low, Then we let it sit there and heat soak, it went way up, then one more hard run down the road and temped it, and it was back down. so Its very effective there, but not very good for more than 10psi and deff not at more than 12 it will just stay hot and isnt worth a ****. ONce you start to modify your car you need a fmic then you can rase boost, and or it will automaticly raise itself, The temping we did was on a stock TII. and then the bottom a pretty modified TII with an s5 turbo on a s4 motor with full exhaust and intake and some other thingys. So once you start to modify your car, like you have GET a good FMIC,

-Chris

chris-reedtn

NOt to mention the chicks dig Big FRONT MOUNTS


-Chris

BlackFC

Well being as I have put a front mount on about 3 cars I have personally owned now, I can give you a real answer to your question. The last car I put a FMIC is my 1989 Turbo 2, stock turbo at 8psi with no boost controller. The car also has a full exhaust, and Microtech EMS, 4x720cc injectors, and a fuel pump. The car gained power EVERYWHERE with the intercooler. The turbo spools faster, definatly has a more torquey feeling and has more top end pull too. Keep in mind that this is only at stock boost, the results will be better the more boost you run ect.

It did not hurt my spool time at all, but rather helped it, Dale Clark and many others have noticed this also when going to a descent core from the stock intercooler.

I wouldn't recommned you get a FMIC, before exhaust, and other basic mods and some fuel mods, but I would suggest it earlier in the "stages" than most people do it.

Daniel

dr.jones63

Daniel, Im trying to figure out what FMIC to get. With your experience got any recomendations?

Don

fastrotaries

I would say that the new Greddy favors stock turbos very well, however the old style has been proven to well over 400 RWHP.

Big cores are not always cool, as they may give off large pressure drops.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I know that I am fixin to find out the answer. The core I got is monstrous.

Jarrett

BlackFC

The Spearco bar and plate cores have worked very well for me. I have used the 2-221 and the indy race core on my DSM. (www.indyracecores.com). These are basically the same intercoolers as Buschur Racing uses.

The Greddy cores are also very good. The 3row car has made ALOT of HP on the Supra's. I have the newer 2row core on my RX7 and love it. I havent turned the boost up yet, but will soon. Also I like the fact that the core uses a reducer to go with the 2 1/4" pipe that is supplied for the cold side, so you can replace it with a real 2.5" pipe later.


Daniel

chris-reedtn

Whats up daniel!!!

Yea the basic lowest price greddy fmic will suit you well. And all this kid lacks is a cat back, he already has the most important exhaust parts so... its about time for a fmic for him.

J-rat, i hope your runnin some killer boost with a big freakin turbo, or your gonna loose some major power, the core on that thing is HUGE, I wish i could have bought it but Alf had already sold it And damnit i wanted his tranny to. But i didnt have the 5k to throw at it.

-Chris

NZConvertible

You're half right. There will be minimal changes to power from frount-mounting the stock intercooler once you're up to speed. There will be some gains because of the better airflow through the core, but it won't be much.

However you proved yourself how quickly the core gets heat-soaked, and that kills power. Sit at traffic lights (or in the dragstrip staging lanes) for a few minutes with the engine running and then try to accelerate away hard. You'll be way down on power compared to the same core mounted up front and not heat-soaked.

If you're going to the trouble of front-mounting the intercooler it makes sense to upgrade it too, but there're still gains to be made from doing it. Then the pipes will be ready and waiting for a bigger core.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Thats the problem, I dont know if my turbo can handle that core. And I dont think I even WANT to put that big of a turbo on it. I might sell it for the V-spec core.

Jarrett

chris-reedtn

haha oh yea???? hhmmmm.....

-Chris

chris-reedtn

However you proved yourself how quickly the core gets heat-soaked, and that kills power. Sit at traffic lights (or in the dragstrip staging lanes) for a few minutes with the engine running and then try to accelerate away hard. You'll be way down on power compared to the same core mounted up front and not heat-soaked.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yea, but after a hard 1bar run up to 120 then pulled over and checked it, it was at normal temp and not so heat soaked. Im sure (know) that sitting there it gets heat soaked but as soon as you start going it cools back down,

Once the car is modified to the point of adding extra fuel its about time for a front mount,

-Chris

NZConvertible

At 120mph there's alot of air being pushed through the IC. Most of that heat removal would have taken place towards the end of the run, not at the beginning when the core was hot and reducing power.

The only way to really tell is to measure intake temps directly. That project is underway...

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

I don't have pics but will take some I have a pretty shity camera but will try my hardest. I have hks exhaust, 720 secondaries, fuel pump, safc along with bov and front mounted intercooler. I'm about to add electric fan and a 6a. If this car had wings it would f****ing Fly! Any ways thats my 2 cents.

rxse7en

Thank you again all for your replies--

So, on a stock TII a FMIC will not cool the charge any more than the stock TMIC? And the length of piping would actually decrease power due to pressure drop?

Now, with my particular set-up (see sig) I would benefit with a FMIC because of my higher boost/heated charge on the stock turbo? If the stock TMIC is already at it's limit in my car, I might actually see a 30+ HP gain with a FMIC?

I didn't pull the 30+ HP figure out of the air, I seem to remember reading an upgrade path for the the TII on the web and it mentioned that a FMIC "alone" was worth 30hp.

B

ERAUMAZDA

When using the stock turbo the FMIC will hurt you. You will suffer from increase turbolag and you will see lower PSI figures. FMICs can be an advantage if drag can be compensated with PSI and fuel upgrades. The reduction of induction tempatures and power of an upgrade turbo will provide safer boost levels. There are things you have to take in consideration. Rotation mass of the driveline (flywheel), the effectiveness of the turbine, and proper tuning. All these can increase the speed of the turbine and pump in more atmospheric air into the inlet.

The greatest advantage of an intercooler is to reduce detonation and allows for safe and higher boost levels.

Think about it. The Aquamist systems doesn't create more horsepower. It just creates a safer enviroment for higer boost.


Intercoolers
filters
exhaust systems


do not just magicly create horsepower. They either lean the fuel or allows a more free flowing system.

rxse7en

Cooler intake temps are going to yield more power as long as the pressure drop is detrimental, no?

The Aquamist looks like a real solution to detonation. Perhaps an Aquamist + stock TMIC + bigger hybrid turbo = safe?

wozzoom

No. Any equation with the stock TMIC does not = safe. Especially with a hybrid turbo.

Triangle Power is at this stage with his S5. We have upgraded the pump, the injectors, and did the fuel pump rewire. The engine is stock with a BNR Hybrid Stage 1 and Stock TMIC. The Exhuast is a DP, Silencer, Apexi N1 Duals.

With this setup, we hit 260RWHP with A/F's in the low 11's.

Currently the car is detonating under full throttle conditions above 4000 RPM. (Boost is 10-11PSI) The problem is not fuel and it's not ignition. The problem is the high intake temps.