FD Upper on an Fc.
02-17-09, 07:03 PM
#51
Rotary Freak
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cant use the lim, i did it bc it looks pretty, was easy and it also has the unproven theory of the longer runners giving a bit more down low, as for the RE maniflod idk, and custom is way too much work for some one like me. im lazy
02-18-09, 10:03 PM
#53
So....
I was debating whether or not to go ahead and do this, then I got a wicked good deal offered to me for the S5 LIM, FD UIM, TB w/ TPS and Elbow. I now have most of the parts to do this but am still sorting out the details.
The next step was to buy that spacer/adapter that Niko kept posting, I did that an hour ago.
Now I need to figure out the little stuff like the TPS, OMP, vac lines etc...
1)Can I use the block off plates from my S4 LIM on the S5 LIM? I think they are the same but I'm not sure.
2)The FD UIM has no BAC, nor does the FD TB have a thermowax device? Should I just cap the coolant line on top of the rear iron that used to go to the FC TB and the one on the back of the water pump? Is my idle going to suck without the BAC and thermowax or does the FD TB handle warmup differently?
3)Similarly the FD UIM has no air bypass solenoid valve or air supply valve. I don't have either PS or AC but does it even matter with the FD TB?
4)Is it easier/better to modify the mechanical linkage fore the S4 OMP to somehow work w/ the FD TB or is it suggested to block off the OMP and premix?
5)As far as the TPS goes, I plan to use the narrow range part of the FD unit spliced into the S4 harness.
I plan on going with a FMIC kit so everything won't be hidden under the TMIC.
I appreciate any clarifications or help with these questions.
The next step was to buy that spacer/adapter that Niko kept posting, I did that an hour ago.
Now I need to figure out the little stuff like the TPS, OMP, vac lines etc...
1)Can I use the block off plates from my S4 LIM on the S5 LIM? I think they are the same but I'm not sure.
2)The FD UIM has no BAC, nor does the FD TB have a thermowax device? Should I just cap the coolant line on top of the rear iron that used to go to the FC TB and the one on the back of the water pump? Is my idle going to suck without the BAC and thermowax or does the FD TB handle warmup differently?
3)Similarly the FD UIM has no air bypass solenoid valve or air supply valve. I don't have either PS or AC but does it even matter with the FD TB?
4)Is it easier/better to modify the mechanical linkage fore the S4 OMP to somehow work w/ the FD TB or is it suggested to block off the OMP and premix?
5)As far as the TPS goes, I plan to use the narrow range part of the FD unit spliced into the S4 harness.
I plan on going with a FMIC kit so everything won't be hidden under the TMIC.
I appreciate any clarifications or help with these questions.
02-20-09, 06:01 PM
#56
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no not really too much work it only cost me about 150 bux and a few hours of research lol
umm.. theres alot more work and money involved in putting rew.
ll be just fine with the amount of power im putting down right now lol
umm.. theres alot more work and money involved in putting rew.
ll be just fine with the amount of power im putting down right now lol
02-21-09, 12:03 PM
#57
Well, the lim looks to have larger dia. runners, but the upper doesn't look much bigger?...
FD UIM definitely has longer runners/design.
From fc3spro.com:
While the REW intake ports are larger, the intake runners of these motors are still about the same size. The 13BT intake manifold has a surge tank plenum which is found to create too much pumping losses because of its large volume. The 13B-REW intake manifold is a "Dynamic Pressure Intake System" which eliminated the surge plenum tank and has opposed-facing secondary intake runners. This new design enhances intake flow by taking advantage of the strong pressure waves inherant in rotary engines. The throttle bodies on the 13BT are 3x45mm, while the 13B-REW are 1x45mm + 2x50mm.
Images:
Rotary Power!
FD UIM definitely has longer runners/design.
From fc3spro.com:
While the REW intake ports are larger, the intake runners of these motors are still about the same size. The 13BT intake manifold has a surge tank plenum which is found to create too much pumping losses because of its large volume. The 13B-REW intake manifold is a "Dynamic Pressure Intake System" which eliminated the surge plenum tank and has opposed-facing secondary intake runners. This new design enhances intake flow by taking advantage of the strong pressure waves inherant in rotary engines. The throttle bodies on the 13BT are 3x45mm, while the 13B-REW are 1x45mm + 2x50mm.
Images:
Rotary Power!
02-21-09, 12:57 PM
#58
The Firestarter
Two things i like about the LIM on the TII is that the secondaries are mounted further up. And the runners have a curvature to them. If the ports were just as large on the TII LIM than they are on the REW wouldn't the TII LIM make for the better flow characteristics?
Also from what i gathered on this forum and other forum about the FD UIM, is that other than just being a better LOOKING manifold. The gains are minimal.
HOWEVER with the FD UIM w/ FD throttle body it does seem to also benefit as a cheaper alternative to getting better air flow vs custom intake manifold. WHEN the car starts to suffer from excessive turbulence in TII plenum from upgrading the 7s boost levels, etc. I can see how the FD UIM plays a better roll. Not so much in gaining HP, but more intake charge efficiency.
But that is just all ramble, ultimately there needs to be a formal study, with a dyno.
-Stock S4 TII With FMIC
-Stock S5 TII With FMIC
-Stock S4 TII with FD UIM & FMIC
-Stock S5 TII with FD UIM & FMIC
(reason why i added the FMIC because the throttle body changes and there would be no use for the TMIC, so to keep the test more equal in numbers a FMIC would be used so that the UIM sample data can be collected better)
-Modified S4 TII
-Modified S4 TII with FD UIM
-Modified S5 TII
-Modified S5 TII with FD UIM
(this test is to see with a TII with increased power, does it show a greater benefit if you add the FD UIM vs a stock TII with FD UIM)
I am pretty sure this test on a dyno would really be useful. Am I wrong? Probably i am. But at least it may help reinforce or downplay claims that people give without substantial evidence.
Also from what i gathered on this forum and other forum about the FD UIM, is that other than just being a better LOOKING manifold. The gains are minimal.
HOWEVER with the FD UIM w/ FD throttle body it does seem to also benefit as a cheaper alternative to getting better air flow vs custom intake manifold. WHEN the car starts to suffer from excessive turbulence in TII plenum from upgrading the 7s boost levels, etc. I can see how the FD UIM plays a better roll. Not so much in gaining HP, but more intake charge efficiency.
But that is just all ramble, ultimately there needs to be a formal study, with a dyno.
-Stock S4 TII With FMIC
-Stock S5 TII With FMIC
-Stock S4 TII with FD UIM & FMIC
-Stock S5 TII with FD UIM & FMIC
(reason why i added the FMIC because the throttle body changes and there would be no use for the TMIC, so to keep the test more equal in numbers a FMIC would be used so that the UIM sample data can be collected better)
-Modified S4 TII
-Modified S4 TII with FD UIM
-Modified S5 TII
-Modified S5 TII with FD UIM
(this test is to see with a TII with increased power, does it show a greater benefit if you add the FD UIM vs a stock TII with FD UIM)
I am pretty sure this test on a dyno would really be useful. Am I wrong? Probably i am. But at least it may help reinforce or downplay claims that people give without substantial evidence.
02-22-09, 04:15 AM
#60
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I race in an organization that doesn't permit forced induction. I'm running an s5 with only exhaust mods, no internal mods with an rtek box. Still not sure after getting to the end of this thread if there is any power for me to gain after all the work to swap an FD upper and throttle body?
check out my website http://www.jjrmotorsports.com
check out my website http://www.jjrmotorsports.com
02-22-09, 11:14 AM
#62
I race in an organization that doesn't permit forced induction. I'm running an s5 with only exhaust mods, no internal mods with an rtek box. Still not sure after getting to the end of this thread if there is any power for me to gain after all the work to swap an FD upper and throttle body?
check out my website http://www.jjrmotorsports.com
check out my website http://www.jjrmotorsports.com
02-22-09, 11:14 AM
#63
This is what I'm leaning towards now, I just hate the thought of going FMIC with 10 feet of piping. Can't be too hard to setup a bigger unit in roughly the same location as the stock TMIC. Add a little alcohol injection to be safe and call it a day.
Looks great Furb.
Looks great Furb.
02-22-09, 11:54 AM
#64
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hmmmm
However, I am looking for any way to raise hp or torque. If you watch some of the videos on my website, you can see that I'm down on power compared to the other cars.
02-22-09, 12:27 PM
#65
The Firestarter
you could potentially run a 4 port S5 N/A and that might allow you to use the FD UIM. But if your racing sanction does not allow FI, i would definitely recommend a Bridgeport or large Streetport with ITBs rather than use the FD UIM.
02-22-09, 12:52 PM
#66
I'm not familiar with the FD intake or the any of the turbo cars and now that I see these pics, I don't really see how it's possible to make this work on an n/a s5.....
However, I am looking for any way to raise hp or torque. If you watch some of the videos on my website, you can see that I'm down on power compared to the other cars.
However, I am looking for any way to raise hp or torque. If you watch some of the videos on my website, you can see that I'm down on power compared to the other cars.
02-23-09, 01:14 AM
#67
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Not allowed to port or run itbs. I could use a stand alone but not sure it's worth it if there aren't any other mods.
I'm lucky I even get to run an RX7 with these guys, they hate it. They all run VWs, Hondas, and Nissans and get to bore, stroke, port, polish, cams, high compression, you name it. I knew the rules when I built the car, I'm just trying to play by the rules.
Not many people on here will like this but my next plan is to put a piston motor in it. Either a Miata or a truck engine. There is a 2400cc max with a 60 over bore. I would get a weight brake too. I just keep brain storming you know.
I'm lucky I even get to run an RX7 with these guys, they hate it. They all run VWs, Hondas, and Nissans and get to bore, stroke, port, polish, cams, high compression, you name it. I knew the rules when I built the car, I'm just trying to play by the rules.
Not many people on here will like this but my next plan is to put a piston motor in it. Either a Miata or a truck engine. There is a 2400cc max with a 60 over bore. I would get a weight brake too. I just keep brain storming you know.
Last edited by Fozzybeardude; 02-23-09 at 01:18 AM. Reason: content
02-23-09, 12:12 PM
#71
When someone does buy one, they should rig it, test it, go to the dyno, make a run, put the original intake on, make a run, and post results.
From the looks of his chart, he gained 50 ft lbs of torque in the top end...
A lot of work for just looks huh?
02-23-09, 02:37 PM
#72
Found it.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...FD+intake+dyno
Look like gains to me, there is more than just looks there. Worth it?.. You decide.
Rotary Power!
02-24-09, 04:06 AM
#73
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looking for power
[QUOTE=How much horse power....QUOTE]
I'm about 155rwhp and I will never know what the others are at. Only 2 other cars that I know of have ran on a dyno, niether are honest about it. One is a fully built 240sx, another is a fully built '95 Integra. All the others are built VWs or partially built hondas.
I can't run a 3 rotor, limited to 2. If I was going to spend the money on a a stand alone and another tune session, I may as well spend the money on dropping the RX8 engine in. There is a great thread going on right now about that.
---Sorry, I'll stop the thread jacking now---
I'm about 155rwhp and I will never know what the others are at. Only 2 other cars that I know of have ran on a dyno, niether are honest about it. One is a fully built 240sx, another is a fully built '95 Integra. All the others are built VWs or partially built hondas.
I can't run a 3 rotor, limited to 2. If I was going to spend the money on a a stand alone and another tune session, I may as well spend the money on dropping the RX8 engine in. There is a great thread going on right now about that.
---Sorry, I'll stop the thread jacking now---
02-24-09, 01:32 PM
#75
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This is what I'm leaning towards now, I just hate the thought of going FMIC with 10 feet of piping. Can't be too hard to setup a bigger unit in roughly the same location as the stock TMIC. Add a little alcohol injection to be safe and call it a day.
Looks great Furb.
Looks great Furb.