SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

After thinking in my mind allot for a new years resolution, ive come up with something rather rare, and not done so much as many other things on this forum. Some people have a 400 WHP mark, or a 10sec 1/4th mile time, or to go around a track at some fast number(i haven't the slightest clue because it varies allot).

What i want to do is build a car to hit 200 MPH at Bonneville. Now when you get to this point your going to say "your going to kill yourself" or "your an idiot" or something else like this, but think about it. Really really think about it. 200 mph is not that hard to hit. There are videos on the net of 3 rotor cosmos going 200mph with little to no work from the factory.

Why do i want to hit 200mph?
Because its less difficult than going 250 or even 210. The faster i go, the more and more i will have in terms of safety work, are dynamics and engine power needed to be done to the car.

With that said, here is my terms of this here goal. I want to reach that using a stock ported engine. s4 na rotors, and possibly a hybrid turbo, and some aero and suspension work, and ultimately, the most important, is drive line work.

This is what i've figured out already. I have an s5 t2 transmission ( i cant find much gearing info on this so if someone wants to chime in, go ahead) and i will need taller gear set to get to these speeds. now i know that the non turbo, automatic rear end will have a 3.909 rear end gear ratio and that blowing it up isn't on my mind (unless thats irrelevant with 300 or so whp and very slick salt). with that said, allot of calculators on the net and from peoples accounts, the top of 4th gear is about 140 mph.

If anything, aero will be the biggest factor in reaching this goal. sure on a calculator ill need a certain gear set to reach 190 or 200 mph easy, but what are some good aero mods to be done?

I have in mind ( but not limited to)

pushing the FTP lenses and turn signal lenses out so they sit flush. tape them up along with the hood, and any gaps. the wipers will go, and possibly the t2 wing. i don't know about a duckbill wing, but many people say it works. Wheels with the rims that have smooth hub caps on them. i don't know what they are called. looking at the Honda insight, they have half the back wheels covered up and i might possibly cover up the fronts a little bit as well.




if there is any help, or any info that anyone could provide for me that would help me out tremendously and i would love suggestions or comments about my ideas besides "your going to die" because ill die anyway. its just better if its under my terms.

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

O_o ouch so down force front and rear will be the most important. My buddy hit high 400s on a dyno and we did 180.
some gear numbers
Tire Diameter:26" Diff Ratio: 4.10 Transmission Ratio: .711 RPM: 7534.4 speed: 200
so... this will tell you a bit about gearing. you will need more power to over come the down force. Cooling will also be a problem make sure you have ALL the under body plastic aluminum radiator, non turbo hood. roll cage is a must. thats how the guy in the vid lived. all new bushings, struts, links, ball joints, wheel bearings front and back, tie rods, etc.
take care and good luck.

w0ppe

As said before, this is a helluva project you're going to be building up. Well, to know that the 13B can obtain the amount of HP is going to be a heck of a ride. 200 MPH isn't just a feat, it's a "Supercar" class (there are many Exotics that don't exceed 200 MPH for certain reasons). Well, Try and break it down into various categories is all I can say.
Power: I think you'll be looking for a large HP # maybe around 550 or above. Torque is kind of irrelevant since the salt-flats are HUGE.
Drive-train: You'll need something that's 200MPH proof. The stock LSD is probably going to be thrown out along with the drive-shaft and old-gearing. Tall is obviously good but too tall and you won't accelerate any more...
Suspension: As good as humanly possible. Often overlooked for speed and performance, be able to put those wheels into the salt is hard work. Not only that, aerodynamics will tell you that low-clearance is good (VERY LOW!).
Aerodynamics: Most dangerous and you will be needing quite a bit of work. As a pilot, it only takes a speed of about 70 mph to get a plane airbourne. You don't have wings but ground-effect will shoot you up more than you want. A wing that isn't big is good since you're going for speed rather than traction. Front / Rear spoilers also needed.
Now!
I might be overexerting on a few things but being able to do 200 MPH over and over again rather than chance it once in a fireball sounds better to me...
Good goal though! I'd like to see this thing in Utah (about 7 hours away from me).

RRTEC

iTrader: (13)

How about strapping your car to a rocket? I see a crazy youtube Video again with an Rx-7 flying though the air.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

after doing some more research, i have found this video.


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see video.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Step 1:

Call Racing Beat, they went 238 in a second gen and could probably give you a good list of things to do.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Wait wtf...sorry to threadjack...but...

But if you follow the link at the end of that vid, he lists some power numbers. One of them happen to be a 'all aluminum' 16B...

Then this side page...
http://www.rotaryeng.net/VTOL.html

Quotes for the lazy
"The all aluminum Mazda 16B engine introduced in October of 2007 weighs about 185 pounds and is capable of about 285 HP at 7500 RPM."

"MAZDA 16B PERIPHERAL PORT ENGINE

The stock Mazda 16B is not a P-port engine. It is a side port engine. However it is fast and low cost to modify it as a p-port engine by boring holes in the rotor housing and welding in tubing. This improves the volumetric efficiency across the RPM range of interest by 20% and so too the HP. The engine is capable of a BSFC of 0.47 which is in the range of most light aircraft engines. Perhaps 5% worse than the best. In turbo compound form it is theoretically capable of a BSFC of 0.4 or below. It is also capable of running in the range of 18:1 to 20:1 air fuel ratio at high RPM and low load. Our theory on why this is possible is due to the fact the engine is a rotating combustion chamber engine. This forces the heavier fuel molecules out near the spark plugs. In effect it is naturally stratified charge. The red line on the stock 16B engine is 8500 RPM and a P-port 16B engine will be making close to 300 HP or more at 8500 RPM. Consequently it is a better high RPM high HP aircraft engine than a low RPM low HP car engine. It's exceptional power to weight ratio more than compensates for the slightly higher fuel burn of a piston engine. "

The last quote is only important that it points out the '16B' is a side port engine...hmmm.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

it looks like they did that in almost a stock bodied FC.

Edit: after looking at the picture, i see that might have added a lip to the rear of the hood and removed the wipers.



since i wont be making outrageous amounts of hp, ill try and make it as slippery as possible.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Just by their model kit...it will reveal all the secrets!!!

It almost looks like they are missing a FTP...huh...

Other then that an aero bumper...the most hideous wheels you will ever see, shaved mirrors, sport wing maybe...

They also have a cage...thats probably important for safety or something weird like that.

w0ppe

Oh yeha. I've seen the RB FD attempt. very very sad but true though.
Here is a tip I've learned from things like that: Three things that make a car move fast, Fuel, Air, and a whole lot of Cash!

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

well safety is a key factor. there are rules to run on the flats and i guess this is one of them. ill have to read up on the rules and everything.

It looks as if all they have done is just shaved the mirrors, and bolted on some super skinny rims.

i will be closing off the wheel wells as well as putting splitters before the wheels.

i wonder whats under the hood of that car.

staticguitar313

iTrader: (2)

bumper isn't aero, its completely stock.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

i have 550cc primaries and 1600cc secondaries and a haltec in the car already with a full ss fuel system setup running in parallel.

ForsakenRX7

Something tells me all the glass in that car may be lexan.

rotarydude

iTrader: (2)

If I remember correct from seeing this car at 7-stock the bottom of the car is almost completely flat all kinds of panels to smooth airflow under the car. Someone mentioned a missing FTP lense.... think for a minute we see it all the time that is where they are get a cold air source to feed that big a$$ turbo. The other thing someone talked about was engines, with their contact with mazda they have access to all sorts of crazy factory stuff that we don't see. i wouldn't put too much faith in the numbers and information you see as listed to a "16B" as being credited to a "16x" just yet.

Good luck on your project it is an admirable goal, I know that it costs money but find yourself some time in a 200MPH wind tunnel just for safety

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

it has the rear view mirror still.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

I think for a minute and agree with everyone else...great way to cool your headlights. Of course 200mph air might actually get into that turbo by smashing through that metal wall.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

i doubt they will need those headlights. its 100% plausible that they ditched the lights, and everything else, and just cut a big *** hole.

farberio

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I thought of that after I hit submit...

stevensimon

iTrader: (11)

bonneville is a fun place but 200mph is a lot more challenging than you think. driving that fast with the salty sand under your car is a very unsettling feeling. your car is always wiggling and moving around. anyone wonder how much hp the fd would have to put down to spin the tires at over 200mph on a regular asphalt road? there is absolutely no traction on this surface and its very bumpy with all the cracks in the lake bottom. bikes that are capable of over 160 on the street are around 130 on the flats. it gets scary fast. its a thrill and 200 is a lofty goal but hit me up when you head out. its always a great time out there.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

this sounds like a $20,000 project when all is said and done, including incidentals like trailering the car to bonneville and such

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

why trailer it? i bet with the proper gearing it will get great gas mileage there.

LOL

arghx

iTrader: (3)

i don't mean to be a dick, but if you're not prepared to have $20k in this project total when all is said and done you need to GTFO. it could be more than that easily, especially considering a solid 450-500rwhp setup usually costs over $10k total in mods long before you talk about these kinds of speeds.

stevensimon

iTrader: (11)

you can use this if you get in trouble..


ejection seat mars rover style. just bounce around till you stop

Mr.FC3s

^^^not a good idea at 200mph. think about it this way throw a bouncy ball at 200mph can you imagine the bounce? lol and in a worst case scenario its a SUPER bouncy ball