The Griffin

IIRC back in 1988 there was a speed shop on the east coast-Long island motorsports(east coast HKS distributors) that did right around 190mph on the salt flats with a 10th ae. Basically the thing was just comprised of HKS bolt on parts,f-con,aic with 4 extra injectors plumed into the intake,T04 turbo,HKS intercooler etc. .The intercooler was a massive 4" thick HKS unit though. The body was stock except for a Mariah nose piece and wing (that ugly 80's type mariah sold) and removed side mirrors.

Of course it also had a roll cage,3.9 rear gear and everything else required to run the car at bonneville at the time. It was a feature page in the early HKS catalogs.
Apparently the guy drove it to bonneville from the east coast, ran it and then drove back.

There's some motivation for you. With today's technology in standalone's ,wide bands, water injection. Shouldn't be to much of a problem to break 200mph.
Hey you can also try to drive it out,run it and drive back like the guy in 1988 (although at the current gas prices, that may cost more in fuel then to build the car )

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

Banks is a legend for that, he tows a trailer behind his diesel truck, runs at bonneville with that truck, then drives everything back home.

HKS and Banks have deep pockets though!

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

No problemo. However, if you are going to do something, why not do something in terms of a naturally aspirated set up?


Also, if I am not mistaken, you have to hold a certain speed for a certain of distance before it's even considered a record. You can't just hit 200, 250, 275, etc. and just back off completely. You also have to record the speed twice.


I am not knocking you for trying it, just asking you questions and possibly helping you and making you realize this is a pretty big goal to complete.


I personally want to build a naturally aspirated 13B to hit 200mph and run at Bonneville, but it's just in the back of my head, and I don't even have the chassis, so it's just a thought/dream of mine. Oh, and in an FB.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

i know. its calculated by the time it takes to hit the timing marks.

stevensimon

iTrader: (11)

do you mean n2o? like nitrous oxide?

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

vary vary true. 200 is not all that hard to hit for a short time going off the stock speedo.
what is not easy is running that speed for 2 miles at a time by the rule book and using "your time to travel 2miles = your speed" math lies a lot less then the speedo in your car that will be more or less true depending on many things, some as simple as tread depth.
And im with Rowtarded time for NA to give a good go.
But you need to think about what class you wanna run in. http://www.bonnevilleracing.com/car-classifications.asp the production guys get more respect out of me.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Any updates on the quest?

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

these thin cant be rushed. why do you think i called it epic quest?? its gonna take a while before i get there. not this sumer, but next.

Don49

iTrader: (3)

You might want to contact Tim Suddard @ Grassroots Motorsports. I seem to recall some coverage in the magazine about an old airfield in South Carolina where speed trials were being run. Also, they might be interested in a project like yours.

TitaniumTT

Actually, I know that guy. As in known him and talked to him at length about his car. Everything you mentioned is correct. I seem to remember him saying something about needing to bump the redline up though. He lives in NY and has.... or had a sound shop of all things in Bedford Hills. I was walking through the shop to talk to some of the installers that were putting an alarm in my truck at the time and there was a few pictures, one monster fricking poster of it, and some tropies if I remember correctly. I had my FC at the time so it obviously caught my eye and we spent a great deal of time talking about it.

He did drive it from the east coast to the salt flats and then back again. Full interior, PS, even air conditioning. If the OP wants I could give you the name through a PM. I haven't seen this guy in literally 7+ years .... no.... even more than that... probably closer to 10 at this point.... so I have no idea if the shop is still there or not.

Also, my EMS guy in CT is BIG with speed week and has worked on a few 300+ cars. Last time I was at his shop he was putting a Motec into an N/A Hyabusa getting it ready for a speed challenge. I have no idea how much help if any he could be. He usually deals with the bikes and the ***** looking ones. He had just finished tuning a 2JZ to 1480BHP. He tells me this and then says, all these idiots put V8's in these 20' long incredibly skinny cars. Why the **** not put a really long skinny motor into a really long skinny car? Most of these people have more cash than brains. I lol'ed.

Actually, thinking more about it..... He wouldn't be of any help. He's an EMS guy. THe only FC experience he has is mine

I wish you luck. Seeing as how a stock bodied full interior car went 190 something, and RB's went 238 with a stock nose, I don't think it would be that tough. I would focus actually leave the car as is assuming all the suspension is top notch, get the appropriote wheels/tires than put all your focus on safety. Get that out of the way first. Make a run this summer and see where you stand and then make the adjustments/mods that you need to do. You might be doing a TON more work to the motor/aero than you need to do and unless you talk to a few people that have done this in this particular car, you won't know unless you try it yourself.

ArtOfRuin

iTrader: (1)

+1. I'm a regular at the GRM forums (same screenname) and the guys on that board will find answers to the most arcane questions you can ask. I'm sure there will be at least one speed trial racer there. At the very least, I'm sure nearly every one of the regulars will be willing to help.

Whatever the case, I wish you luck with this project!

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the info.

Unfortunately, this summer is a no go as ill be spending time in my home in greece ( i have a whole another life there) so thats why i simply said next summer. it will allow me enough time to properly do things. If not next summer, then a couple summers later.

I wonder what kind of EXACT mods he has done to his car.like i said, engine management isnt a problem because ive got one installed. I do have an s4 engine that i dont want to spin out to 9k though, so i will be looking for s5 um... i forgot what they are called. the bolt to the front and rear iron and whatnot and the rotor turns on the. Stationary gears. there ya go.

would 400WHP be about ballpark estimate HP wise?

I still need to do up a TON of reading. well see what happens. i might hit the limit or break it, and have immense pride that i did something NO OTHER PERSON ON THIS FORUM ( besides the people who have done it) HAVE GONE 200+ MPH AT BONNEVILLE!! or ill explode in a glorious ball of flames.

TitaniumTT

It's not the stationary gears that you need to worry about, its the bearing and the rotor clearances that are the problems at higher RPMs, rotor weight too.

I have no idea how much HP you would need. When I was young and dumb I had my N/A up to 137 on the speedo so

I feel that your biggest problem is going to be torque, not HP. That and proper gearing. You need the proper gear ratio and tire size becuase you'll be limited to probably 7-8,000 RPM. A quick google search for a ring and pinion speed calculator turned up this..... http://www.csgnetwork.com/rearendgearcalc.html ... It seemed far fetched so I checked it.... turns out it's actually dead nuts on. Regardless.... it says if you have a 225/55/16 tire, spin 8,000 RPM, through a 3.909 rear and the stock S5 box - you'll hit 218MPH ASSUMING no tire spin at all. I've heard estimates as high as 3% loss to tire slip or deformation so that puts you @ 211. I don't know what the salt will do to that 3% nor do I know if the 3% is accurate to begin with. I read it on the internet. On this site actually.

Regardless - you're going to need a motor that will produce as much torque as needed at whatever RPM you're shifting into in 5th gear at. Broad powerband is what I'm getting at becuase of the spacing in the tranny.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

wouldnt you produce more torque with heavier rotors? how about a super laggy turbo?

TitaniumTT

lighter rotors would give you a higehr RPM. You need to be @ 8000 if not higher.

A super laggy turbo might not have the torque you need when you hit the .719 5th gear especially considered a 3.909 rear. My point was you need to also research some dyno charts and do some math to figure out how much torque you'll need to accelerate at a giving rate to get to your top speed before the clocking starts. I'm afraid that given the spacing of the Type R box, a super laggy turbo won't produce the torque you need at that RPM, what ever it is.....

hold on....

According to that site above you'll be at the top of 4th doing 157mph. When you hit 5th you'll be at roughly 5700 RPM. That's the RPM you need to be concerned with. You need to make sure you have the torque at that RPM to accelerate you fast enough to get to max speed. You're increasing RPM's by 2300 and speed by 60 MPH.

AUGieDogie

iTrader: (4)

Coulda swore I saw some where that the RB car had a water to air intercooler. Coulda also swore that it was in the passenger compartment.

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

http://robrobinette.com/top_speed.htm

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/aerohpcalc.html

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/calculations-top-speed-downforce-drag-lift-etc-541682/

600hp should get u to 200mph+

after u get that 600+hp u can start worrying abt the aero

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

now this is the kinda stuff im looking for.

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

tell u the truth, i highly doubt the accuracy of all those websites, they all give out different numbers ranging from 350-700hp

but i am pretty sure 600whp will be enuf to get u to 200mph with enuf room not stressing the motor TOO much.

look at the nissan GTR, pig heavy @4000lbs, 0.27 coeff, only needs that 480 awhp to get to top speed 190.

theres a Carrera GT, 3043 lbs needs 600hp to top out at 205mph, but then that 0.396 drag coefficient doesnt help

good luck

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

how big of a difference does weight have to play into this? i know that if the car is generally heavier, then it is WAY more stable at a higher speed.

TitaniumTT

Weight would play more of a role in acceleration or handeling than top speed I would think. Although you need to be able to accelerate to your top speed before the clock starts so I would imagine it is somewhat important.

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

Put those cars on the salt flats and they probably lose those types of speeds. Salt flats is a complete different terrain compared to the pavement on test tracks. Also have to figure the ruling's that are in effect at Bonneville, 3 or 5 mile track, and you need to record an average speed to break the 150, 200, 250, 300+ mph club.


SirCygnus- Whenever you start planning for this type of project, why don't you try for the 150mph club first, and then build up everything to 200mph. At least with the 150mph you will know where you are at when shooting for the 200mph club. People don't realize that when they say "oh, 200mph is easy these days with the supercars out". How LONG are the cars held at 200mph? A few seconds? Some of the cars at Bonneville hold 200+mph for longer than a few seconds, and some of them KEEP GOING past 200mph.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

i realize this. if i go threw and hit 150 MPH, ill be fine. ill come back, tweak some things, and go back and try again. Its my main goal to hit 200 mph. once i get to that point, ill be happy and content, but you know how speed is. once you hit the salt, you'll always come back.

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

thats when the aero / downforce comes in to play
proper downforce > u putting 1000lbs of lead all over ur car for stability

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I had fun watching an episode of Top Gear where the boys borrow and buy new Corvette ZR1, Cadillac CTS-V and Dodge Challenger.

The contest they choose is zero to one mile acceleration. Jeremy (in the ZR1 of course) takes a new record of 176mph.

As for the 150mph long course record talk, the stock '87 TII was comfortably in the "150mph club" from the factory and so this is not even a challenge worth mentioning in my eyes as far as the car goes.

Now, as far as the driver goes, if you are the careful type it could be a challenge and accomplishment. If you are the reckless type, well you have probably already done 150+ in your TII...