Was trying to put in new seal in timing cover. Can get the distributer and oil pump to line up, but not the counter shaft. Anyone have any tips other than taking the front of the motor off??? Thanks

Craig W

 

Distributor?
Are you talking about the CAS - Crank Angle Sensor?

I'm a bit confused - is the front oil cover installed already?
How did you access the oil pump if the front oil cover is installed?


-Ted

 

Ok, we pulled the eccentric shaft pulley off, with all the belts. The front shroud, and everything else to access the front of the engine with it in the car. (it runs, just leaked oil). Made sure the eccentric shaft keyway was at TDC so the key wouldn't fall into the engine. We replaced the front timing seal, but my brother pulled the key out of the shaft. After doing this, while trying to put everything back together, the key won't go in far enough. We have it going through the crank angle sensor drive gear, and through the oilpump drive gear, but can't get it to go through the balance weight. Any ideas on how to get it through there? We been turning the engine slowly and seeing if we could 'feel' the keyway in the balance shaft, but no luck so far. Our only other option we see now, is taking the oilpan and front oil cover off and realigning everthing that way. But that means it'll have to sit for a couple of days until I can get the gaskets. Need any other info, let me know.

Craig W

 

I'm still not quite sure know what you are saying, but why not just pull the balance weight off, CHECK THE TORRINGTON BEARINGS because ther eis a 90% chance they have fallen, install the eccentric key, then slide the weight, CAS drive gear and oil pump gear back on.

The 13B does not have "timing cover". It has a "front cover".

 

"I'm still not quite sure know what you are saying, but why not just pull the balance weight off, CHECK THE TORRINGTON BEARINGS because there is a 90% chance they have fallen, install the eccentric key, then slide the weight, CAS drive gear and oil pump gear back on."

Are the torrington bearings held in place by the keyway? The engine is STILL in the car. If the bearings fell off, means they've fallen into the engine block, correct? The car is SOLD when I get it running again. Or I may just part the thing out........

Craig W

 

Without pressure on the spacer (#3 in this pic), there is a good chance it will move and the bearings (#2s) will fall down and be off-center of the e-shaft.

Just pull the front cover off and re-stack everything. Its not that bad. You can leave the oil pan on. Go ahead and order a new front cover gasket and a new oil passage O-ring.

 

Okay, I see what you mean...

You pulled everything off to replace the front oil seal...
Then your brother decides to pull the key off the front of the e-shaft...

First of all, kick your brother's *** for being a dumbass.

Second, I would highly recommend you pull the front oil cover off and redo everything.
As others have mentioned, the Torrington bearings have slipped, and you really need to take everything apart to put them back properly.
If those Torrington bearings are not seated correctly, your engine is going to eat itself within a month...


-Ted

 

He's already kicking himself in the ***. We've screwed with this thing most of the day. Finally came to the conclusion that we're going to have to take the front cover off. So I've got to get a front cover gasket and water pump gasket. Any other gaskets or things I'll need to finish this job??? If this doesn't fix my oil leak, I'll be PISSED!!!!!!

 

You'll need new front cover oil passage rubber and teflon o-rings:

http://mazdatrix.com/b5.htm

About 3/4 of the way down the page.

 

And to do it right, you'll want to replace the oil pan gasket. As well as the metering oil pump line crush washers.

 

Just for anyone less experienced replacing the front seal...do NOT worry about the key falling off. Do not touch it - numerous parts are holding it on.

To check if the bearings have fallen out of position, measure eccentric shaft endplay once you've tightened the front pulley hub bolt to specs. You essentially place a dial gauge between the rear iron and the flywheel and check play. If you have none, the front cover needs to come out because they're wedged.

 

Or pull the front cover and put the bearings/spacers back in position before you crush them by tightening down the front hub.

 

The pan does not have to come off. Just the front cover and the bolts that are common to the pan and the front cover. Difficult to get those front pan bolts out, though

My, my. Pulled that long *** key out, eh? Bet you won't do that again.

 

Yeah, I guess going by the FSM alone and not using logic would not prevent the bearings (and associated parts where they ride) from going to sh*t (my post above).

Wasn't there a way of preventing the bearings from dropping by having someone hold the clutch in, or am I confusing this advice with another procedure?

 

I don't think you don't have to pull the water pump, its on the front iron housing(water pump housing?), not the cover.
I would tear it down and make sure the bearings are fine, and carefully put it back together. Be sure not to push the eccentric shaft foreward/backward.

Off topic: I had problems measuring my endplay with the front cover installed, I was able to check it before putting the cover on, but when I tried with the it on, i got 0? maybe the main seals weren't completly seated and made it seem tight? I ended up opening the cover twice to check if the bearings were smashed, but they weren't! Then I thought they were smashed after the motor was all together, but it was just the stock fan failing... I think that was one of the scarriest moments of builing the motor, except dropping a bolt in the intake mani...

Good luck... everyone makes mistakes...

 

I don't think you don't have to pull the water pump, its on the front iron housing(water pump housing?), not the cover.
I would tear it down and make sure the bearings are fine, and carefully put it back together. Be sure not to push the eccentric shaft foreward/backward.

Off topic: I had problems measuring my endplay with the front cover installed, I was able to check it before putting the cover on, but when I tried with the it on, i got 0? maybe the main seals weren't completly seated and made it seem tight? I ended up opening the cover twice to check if the bearings were smashed, but they weren't! Then I thought they were smashed after the motor was all together, but it was just the stock fan failing... I think that was one of the scarriest moments of builing the motor, except dropping a bolt in the intake mani...

Good luck... everyone makes mistakes...

 

Turns out that him pulling the key was a good thing. The oil leak that I've been chasing wasn't from the OMP, ($150.00 used), or the front cover seal, ($7.95 Mazda),
or the crush washers or plate on the OMP, ($7.00 Mazda), or the OMP lines, ($25.00 ???) The gasket BEHIND the front cover had blown out!?!?!?!???!!??? The oil was running down the front of the block, over the OMP, and onto the ground. So if he hadn't pulled that key, we would have replaced the front seal, put it ALL BACK TOGETHER, and it would have STILL leaked. Then I'd have been REALLY PISSED!! As soon as I can get the picture downloaded, I'll post it. Got to call Mazdatrix and order some parts.........

Craig W