rx7ryan

title says it. what are all of the electrical issues that could occur that would cause the engine not to start but to just crank and crank?

Icemark

flooded

do you smell gas in the exhaust???

rx7ryan

i'm well past the flooded idea

Icemark

why???

again, do you smell gas in the exhaust???

rx7ryan

I'd have to go to the back of the car and let someone crank it to smell it right? I've done different unflood procedures probably 200 times since my car went down 2 1/2 months ago.

Icemark

well if the car is not flooded, there are only two reasons that a car won't start but it does crank.

#1 no fuel
#2 no spark

So if it is flooded (and you seem unwilling to check), the plugs will be full of fuel and you will smell gas in the exhaust. The same thing will happen if there is no spark. But you can check for spark pretty easy by just unplugging a leading spark plug cable from a spark plug and sticking a long screw into it and holding the screw/cable about 1/8" away from metal.

So asking if you smell gas does two things.

It answers if you are flooded and you are getting fuel.

and if there is no gas smell, then you know to trace out the fuel system.

Gee do you think I was just asking to hear myself type... I guess so

rx7ryan

i checked for spark by putting a spark plug in each plug wire and checking them individually while cranking with the egi fuse out. i checked for fuel by checking the fuel filter and cleaning off spark plugs after i take them out of the block. i guess when my roommate comes home, i'll have him crank the car with me at the back and my battery connected to his. i've sprayed starter fluid on the filter and tried to crank but it didn't start at all. sorry if you think i'm being an ***...i definitely don't wanna **** you off.

Icemark

Nah, didn't think you were being a ***, it just seems like you want an answer but are not will to post/check anything.

So did you have spark??? Were the plugs wet???

and I am not clear how you checked for fuel... did you try cranking with the fuel filter disconnected or something???

rx7ryan

there was spark on all 4 plugs. and they were wet but i cleaned them off and tried cranking again after that and still nothing. basically i took the hoses off the filter and blew through it because someone said that there could have been some deposits in the tank that could have clogged it up quickly after i replaced it. fuel spilled from both hoses. i know that doesn't confirm proper fuel pressure, but it says that i have fuel being delivered to the rail. someone else said that the fuel pump is at fault if you spray starter fluid on your filter and try to crank it and it starts for a moment, but it didn't so the fuel pump should be fine.

rx7ryan

are you saying that it can only be 3 things?

1. fuel
2. spark
3. flooded

what about vacuum leaks, afm connections, limp mode, etc.? could that be a cause for it not even TRYING to start?

Icemark

yes. Those are the only things if the motor itself has compression and is in otherwise un-blown up condition.

all the other things you list can cause the above things (except limp mode, which only happens on S5 models and wouldn't stop the car from starting anyway).

For example: disconnect the AFM on a S4 and the fuel pump doesn't turn on-So then you have no fuel. And on a S5 and the car goes into limp (may also kill the fuel pump- I don't remember).

A vac leak wouldn't stop the car from starting (unless it was so big that the AFM didn't register any air movement- which in a S4 means no fuel and a S5 Limp).

Of course you haven't even mentioned what year and model, or motor and that you have checked compression

and your bump has been deleted. Bumps are forbidden in the 2nd gen technical section.

rx7ryan

sorry about the bump. it's a 91 t2. i listened for the 3 swooshes on each rotor and they were strong and even pulses.

so if the car is in limp mode, therefore possibly disabling the fuel pump, i could actually jumper the fuel pump check connector in the engine bay and it would start right?

Icemark

No, the limp mode does not disable the fuel pump. I said I didn't remember if the S5 disables the fuel pump if the AFM is not connected. I know the S4 disables the fuel pump if there is no air flowing through the AFM (massive huge vac leak that you would hear), I don't know if the S5 one does that, but I do know that no AFM on a S5 gets you into limp mode- which does not kill the fuel pump.

Besides you said you had wet spark plugs when you pulled them- which indicates flooded or no spark... have you still failed to check to see if you have gas coming out the exhaust when cranking???

rx7ryan

i've been waiting for my friend to get home from work. he'll be home shortly and i'll check it out. but the wet spark plugs doesn't mean that i have no spark because i've checked that. how many tries have you found the most flooded of rx-7's to take to unflood it.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

ryan ..just sent you a pm ..with deflooding instructions

rx7ryan

ok, i went out there and tried it. i jumpered the fuel pump so it's running no matter what. then i

1. had my friend crank the car over with the egi fuse out. i first smelled the starter fluid that i sprayed into the intake. after a few seconds i smelled fuel. not very strong but it was there.

2. had my friend crank it with the egi fuse in. it didn't start.

so i'm guessing that it could only mean that it's flooded. i mean over the past few months i've deflooded it many many times and it never worked. i even put oil in the housings once. i don't know.

rx7ryan

guess i'll just try several times to unflood it tomorrow with my new walbro pump and if that doesn't work, I'll have it towed to the local rotary specialist and spend a few hundred.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

if it is sittin there whining when you crank it ..it' s flooded..if you hear "puff puff" out the exhaust it's not ..I didn't read anything about you takin out the plugs..if you want spark they have to be cleaned(most likely drenched in gas now..)...try another set of plugs ..and get a fresh charge on that battery..it must be dyin' by now..(essential too)

rx7ryan

"if it is sittin there whining when you crank it ..it' s flooded..if you hear "puff puff" out the exhaust it's not" where did you get that from? i mean what's the reasoning of it? i've been using my friend's battery jumpered to mine. i figure that if i get it running, i'll drive it and charge up the battery then.

rx7ryan

okay, it was about 2:30 am when i looked up the tracking number on the walbro that i was expecting. i got on the web page and saw that it said that it was delivered at 3:30 pm. i remember that i checked it at 1pm and it wasn't in there. then i thought...what if i accidentally checked yesterday's mail today and today's mail came later after i checked it the first time. So long story short, I got my walbro pump today at about 2:35 am. what a jackass.

So I said **** it, I'm going to install it right now. basically i installed it and did a few tests and here are the results.

1. pump connector was jumpered and ign was turned to on and hoses were off pump...it shot fuel out of the metal hardline coming off the top of the tank cover. so the pump works.

2. i put the fuel feed line on that hardline but left the return off and turned the switch to on with the connector jumpered and waited a little while...there was no fuel being returned to the tank. would there be fuel returning to the tank in this situation?

3. i had my friend crank the car with me at the mufflers. at first i smelled starter fluid (from when i had sprayed it into the filter) but afterwards i didn't smell anything (no fuel). I could have sworn that i smelled fuel last time i did that...maybe not but i DID NOT smell it this time.

I didn't try to unflood it (if it is flooded) because it was 4am by the time i finished all of that.

my roommates are really bugging me to just bring it to the local rotary mechanics because i depend on them for rides and they're getting tired of it (they just started a job) but i'd like to not have to spend all of that money. If i can figure out what's wrong with it tomorrow before too long, I won't have to bring it to the mechanics. I don't know, it's just really frustrating.

DR_Toast

iTrader: (1)

how long has that gas been sitting? Could you have possibly gotten water in your gas or bad gas out of an old gas can or something?

HAILERS

The answer to your question is YES, fuel should have been returning to the tank.

You know the jumper works because the pump shot fuel out when the key was to ON and the plug jumpered.


So put the hoses on the fuel tank. Now go to the engine and pull the hose off the RETURN line at the left side of the engine. Jumper the plug and turn the key to ON. Fuel should shoot out.

If it does not, either the feed and return line are crossed at the engine or there is a blockage in the pd, fpr, fuel rails or the fuel filter.

I'd say if the fuel does not come out the return line at the engine, then remove the feed line at the engine and jumper the plug and turn the key to ON. Fuel should flow. IF it does not, then the fliter might be in backwards/stuffed/?????

That said, IMHO it should have started with starter fluid even if the fuel pump was not working. Were all the fuses in when you used starter fluid? Anyway, if you can, try what I said just above to see why fuel isn't returning to the tank with the key to On and the fuel pump check connector jumpered.

rx7ryan

what's that got to do with anything? it's been sitting since the car broke down close to 3 months ago. the gas was from a gas station though.

rx7ryan

by left side of the engine do you mean the driver side? the only feed and return that i know about are the 2 that are right next to each other on the driver side. one goes from the filter. is that what you're talking about?

I think all the fuses were in when i did the starter fluid thing. I WILL try what you said but I have to wait for my roommate to get home from work at about 8 because my battery's dead. Everytime I do something to my car I have his jumpered to it.

n/a-luvr

louisiana eh? are the plugs wet cause the car was underwater? sorry - couldn't resist

I'm not convinced yet he's getting fuel through the injectors. What I would do is pop the FPR off the rail and check for fuel there; It should **** out like a race horse. I would think there wouldn't be a return to the tank until the engine was running - doesn't manifold vacuum actuate the FPR open?

I have a n/a so I'm not too strong on the intricate workings of a turbo efi system. Could a dead boost sensor or knock sensor do this? ~rich