yearrgh

We just put my engine together and even with a V spacer the e-shaft endplay is zero. Anyone have any ideas as to what happened? Everything is together properly.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

look at this write-up on mazdatrix about the torrington bearings and the possibility of it falling out of place... might explain it

http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/pulley.htm

yearrgh

That was our first thought, but we did it at least 10 times and were very careful to keep the bearing in place.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

then you are misinstalling something, you sure you have the first thrust washer on correctly? the bevel should face the eccetric shaft or it will not seat properly.

yearrgh

That is something to check tomorrow, thanks.

HAILERS

Try a THICKER spacer. One like a S, T, X, K whatever but away from the lower letters in the alphabet. That's IF everything else is in order like the bearings etc.

Tofuball

Nah, your spacer is in facing the proper direction.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

who said anything about the spacer? the spacer doesn't matter which direction it is installed in. the first thrust washer has a bevel since the eccentric shaft is not a square cut.

Tofuball

I ment thrust washer. I was destracted while typing :P

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Don't you mean thinner spacer? If there's no play, then you'd need to shave something down a little to allow a little wiggle. That's what the Atkins video recommends, but I would still be a bit hesitant to change something like the design of my engine, by putting in a different spacer than what came in it, lol.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

nope, he would need a larger spacer but it still sounds like something is not installed correctly.

Tofuball

What things should he look for?

yearrgh

It definately needs a smaller spacer assuming everything is together properly. When we took out the thrust washer that goes in the counterweight as an experiment that put the endplay in spec. That means I would need a spacer that is .2787" by my math, which is much smaller than they come.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

all i can suggest is pulling the parts off and laying them out and taking a picture, something is not right with your assembly.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

If everything is assembled correctly and you need to increase endplay you do need a thicker spacer. You do NOT "shave something down". The spacer sets the height the hub is allowed to be pushed down onto the e-shaft. The hub is what presses against the front counter weight (through the oil pump sprocket and the CAS gear). When you increase the thickness of the spacer the hub is pushed further away from the counter weight and thus increases space between torrington bearings and their races. A thicker spacer provides more clearance. Don't believe me spend some money on a manual. Mazda knows a thing or two Atkins hasn't thought of yet.

As far as using the spacer that came out of the engine, that is most often the one you'll need. However, realize that you are talking about a spec of around .003". How tight you torqued the flywheel, the tension bolts, and the hub bolt all play into setting proper end play. What came out of the engine is not always what you need when you put it back together. Be certain the assembly is put together properly. Be certain the spacer rests all the way down on the thrust plate and not on top of the inner bearing. If everything is correct and your endplay is tight then you need a thicker spacer.

HAILERS

Here, here. Listen to Cris Ludwig. He knows of what he is talking about. Also if you can't find Cris Ludwig, read the free, online fsm and the assy procedures. It repeats what he said. A Thicker spacer to increase the end play. some humor in this post.

But then again there might be Something else not quite right causing the lack of endplay. Something we online can't see, hear, feel.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Heh, I guess my simple common sense isn't really sense... "If things are tighter, wedge something thicker in there to help relieve the tension", lol.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

well i don't disagree but i have never seen 0 end play before, ever.. a V spacer is not exactly giving much room for a thicker spacer so something is wrong with this picture. worn washers and bearings cause more end play not less, are these all new bearings and thrust washers?

torsion bolts and flywheel torque have nothing to do with end play, end play is set between the eccentric shaft and front iron ONLY, sorry but i had to set a few things straight so i might be taken seriously.

HAILERS

Naw. I've been there too. I had to stare at that darn thing for some time to figure why it took a Thicker spacer to get a larger clearance.

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

I had that problem, but after I removed the front cover and then measured the end play it was correct. But when everything is assembled, front cover, pully, flywheel, it is hard to measure the endplay, because of the eccentric shaft seals. Maybe try to measure the endplay with out the front cover and see if it has any.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

The V spacer is the 2nd thinnest spacer. Leaves .004" between that and the thickest spacer. I'll admit I'm wrong on the flywheel and tension bolts if you'll go read a FSM and admit you're wrong on needing a thinner spacer to create more endplay.

HAILERS

Thicker for more end play. IF forced to I'll jpg the instructions out of the FSM. Don't force my hand and make me wear out my scanner. humor

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

You're reading my mind.

http://204.126.120.170/duck/fsm.pdf

Y2D

One thing I would like to add here.. it doesn't matter which E shaft you are testing with, you can use any donor available, you can just mock everything up on it.. install things this way on the E shaft, OMIT the stationary gear, reat thrust washer, spacer, rear bearing, bearing plate, front washer, counterweight, and the rest of the gears/pulleys... I didn't even bother with the key... put this all together, tighten the bold (doesn't need to be realyl tight, just tight enough things move to where they will be) and you should be able to sping the bearing plate.. if it is tight, well, there you have your 0 end play, and you can experiment with differant spacers... if you wanted to you could go through the hassle of making a jig to hold the bearing plate so the shaft is horizontal and the bearing plate is firmly fixed, then you could mount a dial indicator off it and measure the endplay without having the rest of the engine to deal with....



I think I might just make one of these

pengarufoo

+1 on thicker spacer.


If the spacer is too thin the thrust surfaces are compressing the thrust roller bearings causing 0 end play.
The spacer sets the distance between the two thrust surfaces, to introduce some free play you must increase the distance == THICKER SPACER.