cryoed 3MM apex seals
02-09-04, 04:25 AM
#1
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cryoed 3MM apex seals
Anybody know any real info on cryo treated apex seals????
I've been told that the metal they are made of is to harsh for the rotor housing... That over time it kinda eats away at the inside of the motor.
Although you can boost more with them does anybody else know any more info on them????
thanks Kris
I've been told that the metal they are made of is to harsh for the rotor housing... That over time it kinda eats away at the inside of the motor.
Although you can boost more with them does anybody else know any more info on them????
thanks Kris
02-09-04, 07:33 AM
#2
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Don't waste your money.... My buddy had 3mm Apex seals in his third gen and hated them, lost compression at low rpms and broke one anyway....
He got a new motor and put the new 2mm seals from Rotary Aviation in and they are MUCH better. He's running 450 horses and they are holding up nicely!!
He got a new motor and put the new 2mm seals from Rotary Aviation in and they are MUCH better. He's running 450 horses and they are holding up nicely!!
02-09-04, 11:03 AM
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yeah. turbo magazine did a couple of articles on rotory engines a while ago. they went over several apex seals and suggested that when rebuilding your engine to stick with the 2mm seals. i was under the impression that 3mm apex seals were better.
02-09-04, 11:41 AM
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i'm curious too, i'm about to do a turbo rebuild and I was gitting ready to pay to have my rotors milled to accept the 3mm seals? are the 2mm really better? sorry to highjack this thread a bit.
02-09-04, 12:49 PM
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3mm seals will stand up to a bit more detonation, I don't think anybody can contest that, but they will still break. They are just a little safety blanket. They are definatly not a silver bullet of any kind.
If you're engine is tuned properly and yuo are using the right fuel, then you won't need then anyways. I know they are definatly stronger though. Since I put in the 3mm 2nd gen seals I have blown my engine twice from too much boost and not enough fuel (trial and error!=$$$) and both times I cracked side seals.. the apex seals are fine.
Some people say since they are bigger, they have higher rotating mass, and therefore reduce the performance of the engine by a small amount... Ummm.. I think they forgot that an equal amount of the rotor has to be removed in order the accomodate the seals, equalling the weight out. But since the movable seal itself is heavier, more force is being exerted oin the rotor housing by centrifugal force.. BUT that force is spread out over an area 1.5x bigger than a 2mm seal... so it all evens out.
Compression can be slightly lower at idle and low rpms though... but usually not noticable.
If you're engine is tuned properly and yuo are using the right fuel, then you won't need then anyways. I know they are definatly stronger though. Since I put in the 3mm 2nd gen seals I have blown my engine twice from too much boost and not enough fuel (trial and error!=$$$) and both times I cracked side seals.. the apex seals are fine.
Some people say since they are bigger, they have higher rotating mass, and therefore reduce the performance of the engine by a small amount... Ummm.. I think they forgot that an equal amount of the rotor has to be removed in order the accomodate the seals, equalling the weight out. But since the movable seal itself is heavier, more force is being exerted oin the rotor housing by centrifugal force.. BUT that force is spread out over an area 1.5x bigger than a 2mm seal... so it all evens out.
Compression can be slightly lower at idle and low rpms though... but usually not noticable.
Last edited by Bambam7; 02-09-04 at 12:52 PM.
02-10-04, 12:32 AM
#6
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Originally posted by Bambam7
Some people say since they are bigger, they have higher rotating mass, and therefore reduce the performance of the engine by a small amount... Ummm.. I think they forgot that an equal amount of the rotor has to be removed in order the accomodate the seals, equalling the weight out. But since the movable seal itself is heavier, more force is being exerted oin the rotor housing by centrifugal force.. BUT that force is spread out over an area 1.5x bigger than a 2mm seal... so it all evens out.
Some people say since they are bigger, they have higher rotating mass, and therefore reduce the performance of the engine by a small amount... Ummm.. I think they forgot that an equal amount of the rotor has to be removed in order the accomodate the seals, equalling the weight out. But since the movable seal itself is heavier, more force is being exerted oin the rotor housing by centrifugal force.. BUT that force is spread out over an area 1.5x bigger than a 2mm seal... so it all evens out.
This is elementary physics...
Force (friction)= u(coefficient of friction between two surfaces) x Normal Force (force perpendicular to the surfaces).
As you can see, surface area does not make a difference, and frictional force is what causes wear on the two housings.
Do not bother trying to make the "but a wider tire gets better traction since it has a larger contact surface area, so friction MUST be dependent on surface area." Its not that easy.
02-12-04, 05:56 PM
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In my opinion its all about tuning wheter the car is Running rich or lean. As wise person once told me that.
And its true I have seen T-II's running hard, and putting down some serious numbers rather it be 2 MM or 3MM Apex Seals. Tuning thats what its all about.
And its true I have seen T-II's running hard, and putting down some serious numbers rather it be 2 MM or 3MM Apex Seals. Tuning thats what its all about.
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