teamstealth

hey every1,
I plan on building a kit car using a turbo2 as my donor. And i found one right in my town that has 37k miles on the engine, and a new clutch. The engine revved very smooth, the clutch took very well....the tranny is total SLOP but seems rebuildable. And the rest of the car is total ****....the seats are crap, the dash is horrible, etc etc etc. What would u offer him? I'm thinking $1200 as payment for the engine/tranny/ecu/wiring.

opinions?
-Zach

AE_Racer

iTrader: (1)

1200 is a good price for an engine ecu/harness if it has 38k on it...

teamstealth

its been for sale for a good 8 months or so...and he just got a DUI or some **** that he has to pay off...so im thinkin he would take $1200. Which would be kickass for me, cuz we all know how much engine rebuilds are.

Evil Aviator

I think $1200 is about right. However, I would recommend using a standalone EMS in place of the stock AFM, ECU, and wiring harness, especially if it is an 87-88 TII engine. Unlike the 3Gen that you are used to, the 2Gen wiring harnesses are very brittle in their old age, and anything that you do manage to pull from the car in one piece is probably still going to have one foot in the grave. I just don't think it's worth pulling the whole harness and taking a chance on spending hours, weeks, or months troubleshooting electrical problems in your new kit car. Make sure you get the 2Gen coils, though, as these are expensive to replace with aftermarket units. Also, if you are not familiar with the 2Gen pulsation damper problem, you may want to search this forum.

The transmission "slop" is usually just the shifter bushings, which are easy to replace.
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/shiftbsh.htm

What kind of kit car is it?

teamstealth

well, were still in long range planning though...but it will be a caterham 7 kit car. 1300lbs wet including me as the driver! Would a standalone come with a diff. wiring harness? Also...i have the choice of using the stock turbo2 turbo, or using the hitachiu ht-12 twins from a 3rd gen. What would u suggest?

ViperKillerWannabe

With most standalones you have to make your own harness.

teamstealth

how difficult is that and how much time does it take?

nopistons

A Caterham 7? Wow. 200 hp in a 1300lb car = 6.5:1 weight-to-power ratio. That's race car territory. How much for the kit? Are you going to use the RX7 trans and rear??

teamstealth

the rolling chassis costs $9950. All you add is interior, engine, tranny, electrical. www.championmotorcars.com

teamstealth

it comes with a toyota rear end and front spindles if i'm not mistaken

Evil Aviator

Um, I would suggest a well-built 12A or 13B non-turbo engine on that little Lotus 7 kit. I think it would be better balanced on that car, and it would save you some money and trouble vs. the TII engine. A street-ported non-turbo 13B could probably get you 0-60 times of less than 5 seconds, while even a stock 13B would be very fast. FYI the original Lotus 7 cars had only 40-80hp. If you really like the idea of a turbocharged engine, then just stick with the stock 13BT, as the 13B-REW turbos would be more trouble then they are worth IMO.

Most come with a flying lead harness, which means that it includes uncut wires, and you just need to cut them to length, and attach the connectors. It's only slightly more involved than installing a large stereo system, and it will probably be easier than installing the body wiring harness in your Caterham 7. The advantage is that it is NEW, and you can cut everything to CUSTOM length for optimal routing and a neat appearance. Some EMS products are also available with a terminated harness, but these are usually vehicle specific, and would not be such a good idea for a custom car like yours because the wires may not be the desired length. Here is the picture of a typical EMS wiring harness:
http://www.tuningtechnology.com/halt..._kit_small.jpg

Other advantages of a standalone EMS:
Allows you to tune the engine for any modifications, such as custom exhaust, which I would imagine would be required on that kit car.
Gets rid of the slow, unprogrammable, stock ECU.
Gets rid of the stock AFM, which can be a real pain if it's not working correctly.
Adds excellent engine monitoring and tuning functions, such as datalogging, AFR readout, MAP readout, various temperature and pressure readouts, etc.*
Adds nice extras like turbo timer, rev limiter, electric fan control, wastegate control, etc.*
Lets you set up a certain engine paramaters (for emissions, street, autocross, rain, etc.) for quick and easy (as little as 5 seconds) loading into the ECU.
Will work with other cars.* This means that if you have a daily driver and a weekend racer, you only need to buy one EMS and two harnesses, and you can swap the EMS between the two cars in about 5 minutes.

* Different EMS products may or may not have these fuctions.

Downsides of a standaone EMS:
Cost ($800 to $1,700 for a good budget EMS)
Needs to be tuned (about $500 for professional dyno tuning)
Most require a laptop computer for tuning.

Oh, you mean that you are looking for a Lotus 7 type of kit car, not specifically a Caterham 7? The reason I ask it because that's not a Caterham 7, it's a Locost 7. Here is the link to the Caterham USA site:
http://www.uscaterham.com/

Other Lotus-7 type kit cars:
http://www.wcmultralite.com/
http://www.superformance.com/
http://www.kenscheepers.com/Resource/maxton.html
http://www.laminarauto.com/

The Locost 7 won the 2002 Run and Gun autocross event with a 70hp Toyota engine, and blew away 40 Cobras on the road course, so it's a good choice, but I just wanted you to know that there are a lot of Lotus 7 type kits out there.

teamstealth

evil aviator....YOU ARE THE MAN!! Thanks for the info!! I will def stick with the 13BT setup, UNLESS there isnt enough room...i like my turbo whine Ive installed a stereo system in my FD not too long ago, so the wiring will be no problem...only thing is our budget for this thing is $15-17k. I'm familiar with the whole EMS ordeal....which one is best suited for this application? I plan to take apart the engine and tranny and rebuild those myself neway, should the comp be bad in the engine and the gears shot in the tranny. Also, yeah i know its a locost 7, and i intended it to be, because of the price range im dealing with, and the fact that their race cars are proven. The goal for this car is for me to gain some heavy mechanics experience, and to have something to show for my work. It will be a sunday driver slash track car.

what is the AFM?...not familiar on that part since i own a FD.

any other suggestions and/or advice? I really appreciate all of u guys' help

-Zach

Evil Aviator

LOL, I have been a subscriber to Kit Car magazine since the early 80's. BTW, there is also a Rotus 7, but I don't know if they have a website or not.

Taking into consideration the low budget, I would say the Microtech LT8, which is the cheapest EMS that I would consider putting on one of my cars. It doesn't have boost control, but the stock 13BT boost level will be more than enough for your project. Actually, you may want to just stick with the nasty stock EMS setup if you don't want to spend a lot of money on the car. Parts always cost more than you think, so if you can get the stock EMS to work, then it will free up $800-1,000 for other parts.

AFM = Air Flow Meter. It's the 2Gen's version of the 3Gen's Throttle Sensor. Most standalone EMS's use a speed-density system, which uses an air pressure sensor instead of an airflow meter, so you can remove the airflow meter.

teamstealth

well yeah...i want to get the car done with the minimal amount of $$ so i can splurge on things like EMS, the $3200 dash from STACK that i want, etc etc etc.

Evil Aviator

Hehehe, if you really want to splurge, then you can get a Motec EMS with ADL.
http://www.motec.com/products/dash/adldash.html

You may also want to look into the SPA dual gauges and tachometers if you find that the Stack dash is a little too expensive and/or more advanced that what you need.
http://www.spatechnique.com/

If you don't mind spending a little more money on an EMS, but you don't quite want to break the bank on a Motec EMS, the Wolf3D V4 (about $1,400) and Haltech E11 (about $1,600) both have 3D boost control and 15 times the fuel injector resolution of the Microtech LT8.
http://www.wolfems.com.au
http://www.haltech.com.au/Products/ECUs/E11/e11.html

teamstealth

haha as far as EMS's go...id probably end up with a PFC or a E6k. We'll see as far as the gauges go...once i put all the stuff on paper, i might end up with some good ol VDO gauges.

Evil Aviator

The PFC doesn't work with the 2Gen RX-7. Didn't you ever wonder why only the 3Gen owners talk about the PFC? lol

The E6K will work fine.

VDO gauges would actually give the car a classic look, as well as save you nearly $3,000 vs. the Stack dash.

teamstealth

never knew the PFC was FD only....what is the EMS that comes closest to its user-friendliness?

Evil Aviator

PFC, lol.

I was so impressed with the E6K "intuitive" DOS software that I immediately bought a Wolf, lol. I have not seen the new software first hand yet, but the Haltech E11 and Microtech LT8 look like they now have pretty good software. I have always liked the layout of the Wolf software. Each EMS has its strong points and weak points. Most of the EMS dealers will let you download their software for free, so it is probably best if you do that and see what you like.

teamstealth

How much would parts cost for a tranny rebuild if i did the labor myself?

teamstealth

After looking @ the softwares for the Wolf3D and the Haltech....Wolf3D is def the way to go.

Evil Aviator

I found this rotary-engine Locost 7 site while searching for something totally different today:
http://www.mindspring.com/~robmk2/

Transmissions are much too complicated for someone with my limited mechanical skills, so I'm not sure what the parts would cost. My local race shop sells rebuilt transmissions for $500-600. They have some parts removed, reconfigured, and adjusted for racing, but this is probably a good estimate.