khoney

I think something really bad happened. I washed my car two nights ago, then pulled it into the garage. The next morning, while I was turning over the engine, it sounded like something broke loose and I got more of a higher-pitched constant whine after a few normal cranks. I tried starting a couple of times, and it did the same thing. I figured the starter was going out, so put in a new one tonight. Same problem. The starter is engaging the flywheel (I can see it turning after removing the inspection plate), but I don't get the typical cranking sound. I'm kind of a novice at 'how things work' - what could be wrong?

Also, the starter motor only works when I short the battery to the ignition terminal. I'm not as concerned about this, because I had similar problems with my last starter (10-20 solenoid clicks followed by a start). However, this one never engages the motor. I think my last starter was good (or better) than the new one. Anyway, since the flywheel is turning, what would cause this behavior? I'm trying to keep this thing going until the RX-8 comes out, but this problem looks (or sounds) really bad.

BTW, I do have a fuel cutoff switch, and have never had problems starting since it was installed.

scathcart

rethinking now...

you pulled it in and shut it off? You probably flooded it. The car would still have been in warm up mode, and running extremely rich. Try push starting it (drop the clutch in second at 25 mph), and remember to always let the car warm up before shutting it off.

hypntyz7

Sounds like maybe you flooded it? Try some fluid in the lower plugholes, atf or motor oil. IT wont cost you anything, and it'll eliminate this possibility so we can move on. A really flooded engine will whine adn rotate quicker than one making compression. IT will sound JUST like a starter motor that is spinning rapidly, but isnt engaging the flywheel(under load). This is because the engine is spinning rapidly, but isnt compressing much of anything therefore isnt under much load.

Ignition switch or clutch interlock. Get a DMM and do some probing...this is easy to fix, and sometimes you only need to run a 5 foot length of wire from your ignition to your starter. First check your starter trigger wire itself when key is turned and clutch in...you should see 12v. IF not, move up to the clutch switch, and check for voltage there, after, then before. IF you have it before and not after, it is the switch. IF you dont have it before, it is the ignition switch. You can replace just the electrical contact end without removing the physical cylinder itself, this is a 20 minute job, adn it sounds like it might save you 20 minutes in fooling with the key/starter/battery.

Scott 89t2

when you moved it into the garage. did you use the pump switch to kill the car?? if not I bet it flooded. you can't turn the cars off untill fully warm. moving it 5 feet and shuting it off will flood them.

khoney

I can't remember if I used the cutoff switch when I shut it off. I'm very happy to hear that it could just be flooded.

I don't understand the ignition or clutch interlock switch issue, because I can hear (and feel) the starter solenoid engage every single time the clutch is depressed while the key in the start position. It almost seems as if there isn't enough current to turn the starter motor. Is it possible for the ignition switch or clutch interlock switch to have this effect? I did ohm out from the battery +terminal to the starter, and I have 0.1ohms, and I have 0.4ohms from the ignition terminal to the -battery terminal.

P.S. I'm afraid to try the push-start, because I live at the top of a hill, and if that won't get me started, there's no getting back to the house

khoney

bump

hypntyz7

Ok, well theories and speculation aside, have you actually tried any of the recommendations above to allow us to use process of elimination?

khoney

1) Got my old starter back from the parts store and put it back in. So far, the motor is engaging the flywheel every time (no more click-click). Go figure.

2) Am in the process of doing the ATF trick. Plugs are out, I need to go buy some fluid. I guess if i've gone this far, I might as well do the 24-hr soak. Will get back to everyone once I've finished. Thanks everyone for advice so far - my panic is gone for the moment

khoney

OK, I chickened out. I did some more searching through the forum hoping to find testimonials from lots of people who've tried the ATF trick and were happy with the results. All I found was lots of posts saying to try it, but it never sounded like they were speaking from personal experience. I found enough posts with warnings of potential problems to say forget it. My car's compression wasn't that great before, but it did run well and have pretty good accel.
Sooo, I took the less drastic route of using about 3ccs in each of the lower plugs, then replacing the plugs and trying to start up. It didn't start up immediately, in fact it continued to sound like there was little or no compression. I kept trying startup combined with holding down the accel and using the fuel cut switch. After about 15 tries with long cranks, it finally started up with the fuel cut engaged. I then flipped the switch to give it fuel and it immediately died. Back to step A - another 10 or so tries, and it started up again. Turn on the fuel and it dies immediately again. OK, let's try something different. Next time it started up with the fuel cut, I reved it until it died, without turning on the fuel. Then cranked it until it turned over and turned on the fuel. Success!
Lots of white smoke, took it out for a good hard drive, and came back and parked it. Waited about 10 minutes, and tried my normal start procedure. Started OK. Hope things are fine in the morning, but for now I'm a very happy guy!

Thanks to everyone for giving me good advice and reason not to panic. I thought for sure something horrible had happened.

PS -About the ATF trick - if anyone has PERSONALLY tried it and had a completely positive experience, or a negative experience, please post it. I'm still considering it to improve compression. If you haven't tried it yourself, don't waste the bandwidth posting. Last time someone asked the same question, the majority of posts were opinions with no data to back them up.

(Hailers, if you're reading this, I'd sure like your opinion on it - you've never given me bad advice)

dr0x

Dude just push start or tow start the car. Get it going at about 4k rpm in first gear. Just keep going soon it will start to sputter then it will fire up, and probably cover the vehicle behind you with black smoke. Its so much easier. But get into the upper rpms, youll be moving way more air through the motor + creating more spark. If the car fires up go home and change the oil (flooding the car will get gas in the oil and cause it to thin). And you should be ready to go. If you have to kill the car w/ the cut off switch get your injectors cleaned and just eliminate the need for the switch.

khoney

I thought about getting the injectors cleaned, but all of the wiring harnesses and connectors on my car are so damned crumbly that I'm afraid I'll create more problems by disconnecting stuff to get the injectors off. I've already had some locking connectors disintegrate on me when trying to unlock them.

FC3SPORT

I've used the ATF trick many times. I don't have any hard numbers of compression. I don't have anything bad to say about it however. It has always worked when my engine was flooded. In fact I just shoot the ATF right into the lower manifold from a vac line. Saves the trouble of pulling the plugs. Some say using Marvin's Mystery Oil is a better alternative since it is made to combust. At any rate, the best fix is new injectors. The flooding is caused by leaky injectors. The cut off switch makes an effective band-aid for all of us FC owners that live paycheck to paycheck.