Can you push 180whp on a mild streetport ? (s4 na)
06-28-05, 07:57 PM
#1
Can you push 180whp on a mild streetport ? (s4 na)
ok my goal is to push 180whp in my s4 na, i have a rebuilt engine by kevin landers and everything was ported (primary , 2ndary, and auxilary), the exhaust diffuser was also cut out
current mods include
- ps, ac, and airpump removed
- emissions removed (egr valve and acv)and emissions rack removed
- 5/6 port actuators and rods removed
- tb mod and ported out , but i kept the thermowax assembly
- lightweight flywheel (17 lbs)
- mazdaspeed motormounts
- centerforce dual friction clutch ( not that this even adds any hp)
-k&n airflilter for stock airbox (might modify the airbox) .. also have k&n cone air filter (heard this sux in hot air if installed without cold air box)
future mods -
- racing beat collected header w/ test pipe
- safc 2
- 2.5" catback exhaust
is there anything else im missing that could add more hp ? i know i could port the intake manifolds but there isnt much space to port them anyways... i did port the top of the uim but thats it ... im not exactly experienced with porting...and i just want to get my car running
current mods include
- ps, ac, and airpump removed
- emissions removed (egr valve and acv)and emissions rack removed
- 5/6 port actuators and rods removed
- tb mod and ported out , but i kept the thermowax assembly
- lightweight flywheel (17 lbs)
- mazdaspeed motormounts
- centerforce dual friction clutch ( not that this even adds any hp)
-k&n airflilter for stock airbox (might modify the airbox) .. also have k&n cone air filter (heard this sux in hot air if installed without cold air box)
future mods -
- racing beat collected header w/ test pipe
- safc 2
- 2.5" catback exhaust
is there anything else im missing that could add more hp ? i know i could port the intake manifolds but there isnt much space to port them anyways... i did port the top of the uim but thats it ... im not exactly experienced with porting...and i just want to get my car running
Last edited by wthdidusay82; 06-28-05 at 08:19 PM.
06-28-05, 08:01 PM
#3
XBL** Ownicus
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The header should help a bit. My OEM ported 17 year old 13b gained a good increase in response and power. It's great for annoying the neighbors too. 
I'd look into also going with the S5 intake manifolds, especially if you have the emissions removed and don't have a ton of vacuum re-routing to do. I think you can use the S4 throttlebody w/ the S5 intakes and you'll be ok. Don't quote me on that.
You could also get them either sand blasted on the inside or extrude honed or whatever they call it to make them nice and smooth and increase the flow a bit.
I'd look into also going with the S5 intake manifolds, especially if you have the emissions removed and don't have a ton of vacuum re-routing to do. I think you can use the S4 throttlebody w/ the S5 intakes and you'll be ok. Don't quote me on that.
You could also get them either sand blasted on the inside or extrude honed or whatever they call it to make them nice and smooth and increase the flow a bit.
06-28-05, 08:15 PM
#5
i thought about that but i heard it doesnt even give anymore power on a ported motor and the s4 intake is just as good
although the s5 MAY give more top end it was built for the s5 with power from 5-8k redlining up to 8600 rpm, s4 gets its power from 4-7k redline , redlining up to 7500rpms or so , dont quote me on this either lol
not to mention u need to hack at the manifolds to make them fit on right ..
the vdi is cool tho although i dont know if u make more hp by taking out the 5/6 ports or if u can still use the vdi with the 5/6 ports out ?? but to put that intake on if u wont be making anymore good hp throughout the powerband is a waste to me
although the s5 MAY give more top end it was built for the s5 with power from 5-8k redlining up to 8600 rpm, s4 gets its power from 4-7k redline , redlining up to 7500rpms or so , dont quote me on this either lol
not to mention u need to hack at the manifolds to make them fit on right ..
the vdi is cool tho although i dont know if u make more hp by taking out the 5/6 ports or if u can still use the vdi with the 5/6 ports out ?? but to put that intake on if u wont be making anymore good hp throughout the powerband is a waste to me
Originally Posted by uRizen
The header should help a bit. My OEM ported 17 year old 13b gained a good increase in response and power. It's great for annoying the neighbors too.
I'd look into also going with the S5 intake manifolds, especially if you have the emissions removed and don't have a ton of vacuum re-routing to do. I think you can use the S4 throttlebody w/ the S5 intakes and you'll be ok. Don't quote me on that.
You could also get them either sand blasted on the inside or extrude honed or whatever they call it to make them nice and smooth and increase the flow a bit.
I'd look into also going with the S5 intake manifolds, especially if you have the emissions removed and don't have a ton of vacuum re-routing to do. I think you can use the S4 throttlebody w/ the S5 intakes and you'll be ok. Don't quote me on that.
You could also get them either sand blasted on the inside or extrude honed or whatever they call it to make them nice and smooth and increase the flow a bit.
06-28-05, 09:09 PM
#6
It is a very big myth that the S5 intakes don't make more power than the S4 intakes. They do. It's all about tuning. People like to say that the S5 manifold is intended for a stock engine while the S4 manifold works better with ported engines. False. They were both designed for stock engines. The S5 manifold effectively has 2 different intake runner lengths. That's what VDI does. In long mode it has longer runners than the S4 manifold and in short mode it has shorter runners than the S4 manifold. That means it is tuned above and below the S4 manifold which means it works better over a wider powerband. While true that the tuning rpm changes due to porting, this applies to both manifolds and not only the S5 manifold. You definitely want to keep VDI working. That would be less power below about 5500 rpm or so if left open. You should also keep the auxiliary ports working. This is less power below about 3800 rpm if left open. There is NO more power to be had from leaving these open. You just merely lose power over a greater range. No point in that. You will find that if you leave all of those parts off or open full time, you may think it is fun and fast, then you'll hit a reality check when you drive another car that still has them working and you realize your car sucks everywhere except for the last 1000 rpm of the powerband. Not a worthwhile tradeoff. Lots of people do it though but they'll eventually learn. I am currently running an S5 manifold on my streetported GSL-SE. I used to have an S4 manifold on it BTW.
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06-28-05, 10:21 PM
#8
Originally Posted by SirCygnus
i would skip out of getting an safc and i would buy an ems like a megasquirt. it will eliminate tons of poopiedoodoo under yuour hoodsie woodsie and then your will be able to go fasterwaster
06-28-05, 10:25 PM
#9
i'll blow YOUR valve off
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yeah, with a streetport and all that stuff and a full exhaust etc etc all you ought to need is a little more fuel to be squirted in and i'd say you should be able to do better than that...
a ported tb would be a nice addition to such a car.
a ported tb would be a nice addition to such a car.
06-29-05, 06:34 AM
#10
but dont you need to hack at the manifold to make it fit on the engine ? i dont know about the ports that go on the engine...are those the same ? i know someone said there is an issue with getting it to go on because something is in the way
would i be keeping my stock s4 lim ? i heard u dont want to change that b4
aside from that how much power do you think an s5 intake should give me and how much would it cost ? this would be something i may later upgrade too if its worth my money
would i be keeping my stock s4 lim ? i heard u dont want to change that b4
aside from that how much power do you think an s5 intake should give me and how much would it cost ? this would be something i may later upgrade too if its worth my money
Originally Posted by rotarygod
It is a very big myth that the S5 intakes don't make more power than the S4 intakes. They do. It's all about tuning. People like to say that the S5 manifold is intended for a stock engine while the S4 manifold works better with ported engines. False. They were both designed for stock engines. The S5 manifold effectively has 2 different intake runner lengths. That's what VDI does. In long mode it has longer runners than the S4 manifold and in short mode it has shorter runners than the S4 manifold. That means it is tuned above and below the S4 manifold which means it works better over a wider powerband. While true that the tuning rpm changes due to porting, this applies to both manifolds and not only the S5 manifold. You definitely want to keep VDI working. That would be less power below about 5500 rpm or so if left open. You should also keep the auxiliary ports working. This is less power below about 3800 rpm if left open. There is NO more power to be had from leaving these open. You just merely lose power over a greater range. No point in that. You will find that if you leave all of those parts off or open full time, you may think it is fun and fast, then you'll hit a reality check when you drive another car that still has them working and you realize your car sucks everywhere except for the last 1000 rpm of the powerband. Not a worthwhile tradeoff. Lots of people do it though but they'll eventually learn. I am currently running an S5 manifold on my streetported GSL-SE. I used to have an S4 manifold on it BTW.
06-29-05, 06:36 AM
#11
is this a true ems ? how much does it cost and what are the options on it ?
Originally Posted by SirCygnus
i would skip out of getting an safc and i would buy an ems like a megasquirt. it will eliminate tons of poopiedoodoo under yuour hoodsie woodsie and then your will be able to go fasterwaster
Last edited by wthdidusay82; 06-29-05 at 06:39 AM.
06-29-05, 07:45 AM
#12
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Forum for MegaSquirt:
http://www.msefi.com
Rotary with ignition:
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=7544
http://www.msefi.com
Rotary with ignition:
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=7544
06-29-05, 08:54 AM
#13
seems like its very complicated..
Originally Posted by dbgeek
Forum for MegaSquirt:
http://www.msefi.com
Rotary with ignition:
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=7544
http://www.msefi.com
Rotary with ignition:
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=7544
06-29-05, 09:00 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
It is a very big myth that the S5 intakes don't make more power than the S4 intakes. They do. It's all about tuning. People like to say that the S5 manifold is intended for a stock engine while the S4 manifold works better with ported engines. False. They were both designed for stock engines. The S5 manifold effectively has 2 different intake runner lengths. That's what VDI does. In long mode it has longer runners than the S4 manifold and in short mode it has shorter runners than the S4 manifold. That means it is tuned above and below the S4 manifold which means it works better over a wider powerband. While true that the tuning rpm changes due to porting, this applies to both manifolds and not only the S5 manifold. You definitely want to keep VDI working. That would be less power below about 5500 rpm or so if left open. You should also keep the auxiliary ports working. This is less power below about 3800 rpm if left open. There is NO more power to be had from leaving these open. You just merely lose power over a greater range. No point in that. You will find that if you leave all of those parts off or open full time, you may think it is fun and fast, then you'll hit a reality check when you drive another car that still has them working and you realize your car sucks everywhere except for the last 1000 rpm of the powerband. Not a worthwhile tradeoff. Lots of people do it though but they'll eventually learn. I am currently running an S5 manifold on my streetported GSL-SE. I used to have an S4 manifold on it BTW.
wtfdidusay - my S4 motor, with VDI, working 6-ports with 'pineapple' inserts, mild street port, RB header, cone intake, and SAFC made right around your target whp. BTW, tuned on the dyno to A/F ratio of 13:1 ish at WOT, it needed to have fuel removed, not added.
So don't think you need bigger injectors.
06-29-05, 09:22 AM
#15
im kind of weary about those pineapple inserts since there have been incidents where they got sucked into the engine...and how do u know if u really make more power with them..
do you have your dyno chart ? if u dont, how much power were u making to the wheels and how much torque and at what rpm ? who rebuilt and ported ur motor ?
do you have your dyno chart ? if u dont, how much power were u making to the wheels and how much torque and at what rpm ? who rebuilt and ported ur motor ?
Originally Posted by slvr7
Spot on, rotarygod.
wtfdidusay - my S4 motor, with VDI, working 6-ports with 'pineapple' inserts, mild street port, RB header, cone intake, and SAFC made right around your target whp. BTW, tuned on the dyno to A/F ratio of 13:1 ish at WOT, it needed to have fuel removed, not added.
So don't think you need bigger injectors.
wtfdidusay - my S4 motor, with VDI, working 6-ports with 'pineapple' inserts, mild street port, RB header, cone intake, and SAFC made right around your target whp. BTW, tuned on the dyno to A/F ratio of 13:1 ish at WOT, it needed to have fuel removed, not added.
So don't think you need bigger injectors.
Last edited by wthdidusay82; 06-29-05 at 09:24 AM.
06-29-05, 10:09 AM
#16
ERTW
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[QUOTE=wtfdidusay82]im kind of weary about those pineapple inserts since there have been incidents where they got sucked into the engine...and how do u know if u really make more power with them..
QUOTE]
one way to be safe about it, and this is what i did, is to install the inserts into the cylinders like PR says to.
after that, tap a hole from the back of the cylinder, so it goes through the outer wall and then into the insert. after that simply insert a screw with the same loctite used for the insert, and that's pretty much NEVER going to come loose
QUOTE]
one way to be safe about it, and this is what i did, is to install the inserts into the cylinders like PR says to.
after that, tap a hole from the back of the cylinder, so it goes through the outer wall and then into the insert. after that simply insert a screw with the same loctite used for the insert, and that's pretty much NEVER going to come loose
06-29-05, 10:11 AM
#17
but how far can u even thread the screw in ? the metal is not very thick, what size tap did you use ? and what kind of screw/bolt did u use (size etc)
[QUOTE=coldfire]
[QUOTE=coldfire]
Originally Posted by wtfdidusay82
im kind of weary about those pineapple inserts since there have been incidents where they got sucked into the engine...and how do u know if u really make more power with them..
QUOTE]
one way to be safe about it, and this is what i did, is to install the inserts into the cylinders like PR says to.
after that, tap a hole from the back of the cylinder, so it goes through the outer wall and then into the insert. after that simply insert a screw with the same loctite used for the insert, and that's pretty much NEVER going to come loose
QUOTE]
one way to be safe about it, and this is what i did, is to install the inserts into the cylinders like PR says to.
after that, tap a hole from the back of the cylinder, so it goes through the outer wall and then into the insert. after that simply insert a screw with the same loctite used for the insert, and that's pretty much NEVER going to come loose
06-29-05, 10:29 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by wtfdidusay82
is there anything else im missing that could add more hp ? i know i could port the intake manifolds but there isnt much space to port them anyways... i did port the top of the uim but thats it ... im not exactly experienced with porting...and i just want to get my car running
Another thing you can do is have your intake extrude honed. Icemark had some nice gains by doing this. Its expensive, but apparently can make some nice power gains. More info here: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...t=extrude+hone
Other than that, its pretty much cold air intake, full exhaust, etc. - or you can always use Nitrous.
06-29-05, 10:38 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by wtfdidusay82
seems like its very complicated..
Last edited by dbgeek; 06-29-05 at 10:45 AM.
06-29-05, 03:15 PM
#20
i have no clue how to put it in or program it
Originally Posted by dbgeek
Any standalone management system will increase your power output substantially over even an S-AFC. Unfortunately, they can be difficult to program, but there are some members here who revel in the programmability of them. I'm a fan of the MegaSquirt, and will be building mine soon - they've added ignition control with variable timing split using stock FC components. There is no reason to not use the MS now...
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