Auxiliary ports. Yes, I searched.
05-22-08, 08:28 PM
#1
Auxiliary ports. Yes, I searched.
I searched and read just about every post in here and the archive, so before you tell me to search please read the whole post. I know this is posted just about every week.
With that said and done, my ports are not opening. I tested them via aaroncake's website (put the grease on them did not move) and then went on the clean them with penetrating lube etc. I greased up the actuators and the sleeves move freely as I just re-installed them last week. It does not much effort to get them to move. They were installed as per the instructions in the FSM.
The actuators are not stuck. I can blow into one of the holes with my thumb over the other one and the actuator will go down (it does not taste very good either). The gaskets seem to be ok (on the actuators), but I am wondering if i should replace them, or add some gasket sealer to tighten the whole deal up, but there does not seem to be an air leak. The little black hose from the split air pipe is hooked up to the right place as well.
The thing that is troubling me is, I did not have a split air pipe for along time as it was cut off. So, I had to get one from a junkyard and get it welded up. I did not clean the pipe out like I was planning as I did not think it was dirty, but it might be. I'm thinking the pipe itself is clogged as the system post split air pipe seems to be working just fine (aside from not opening the ports). I can blow through the system with a hose and feel air on my fingers from both ports where it should be coming from.
I'm thinking it's the split air pipe being clogged and I should have it taken off and clean it out and hook an air compressor to it and check the flow. The weld on the pipe was mig welded and is not that clean. I'm also going to get a better job done on it anyways, so I might as well take it off.
What do you guys think? I'm at a loss right now as I've been working on this for a few days and have done just about everything I could find on the forum and the FSM. I do not think the pipe is leaking as much as it might be clogged. Can it get clogged?
P.s. I have all my cats. Even the pre's.
With that said and done, my ports are not opening. I tested them via aaroncake's website (put the grease on them did not move) and then went on the clean them with penetrating lube etc. I greased up the actuators and the sleeves move freely as I just re-installed them last week. It does not much effort to get them to move. They were installed as per the instructions in the FSM.
The actuators are not stuck. I can blow into one of the holes with my thumb over the other one and the actuator will go down (it does not taste very good either). The gaskets seem to be ok (on the actuators), but I am wondering if i should replace them, or add some gasket sealer to tighten the whole deal up, but there does not seem to be an air leak. The little black hose from the split air pipe is hooked up to the right place as well.
The thing that is troubling me is, I did not have a split air pipe for along time as it was cut off. So, I had to get one from a junkyard and get it welded up. I did not clean the pipe out like I was planning as I did not think it was dirty, but it might be. I'm thinking the pipe itself is clogged as the system post split air pipe seems to be working just fine (aside from not opening the ports). I can blow through the system with a hose and feel air on my fingers from both ports where it should be coming from.
I'm thinking it's the split air pipe being clogged and I should have it taken off and clean it out and hook an air compressor to it and check the flow. The weld on the pipe was mig welded and is not that clean. I'm also going to get a better job done on it anyways, so I might as well take it off.
What do you guys think? I'm at a loss right now as I've been working on this for a few days and have done just about everything I could find on the forum and the FSM. I do not think the pipe is leaking as much as it might be clogged. Can it get clogged?
P.s. I have all my cats. Even the pre's.
05-22-08, 11:07 PM
#4
this guy ran his auxilary ports off vacuum: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/vacuum-6-ports-517463/
another way to do it use the stock airpump with an rpm switched solenoid valve: http://www.idahorotary.com/6portsolution.htm , similar to the s5's . you could switch it with a summit RPM switch or even better, switch it from an rtek 2.1
another way to do it use the stock airpump with an rpm switched solenoid valve: http://www.idahorotary.com/6portsolution.htm , similar to the s5's . you could switch it with a summit RPM switch or even better, switch it from an rtek 2.1
05-22-08, 11:27 PM
#5
this guy ran his auxilary ports off vacuum: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=517463
another way to do it use the stock airpump with an rpm switched solenoid valve: http://www.idahorotary.com/6portsolution.htm , similar to the s5's . you could switch it with a summit RPM switch or even better, switch it from an rtek 2.1
another way to do it use the stock airpump with an rpm switched solenoid valve: http://www.idahorotary.com/6portsolution.htm , similar to the s5's . you could switch it with a summit RPM switch or even better, switch it from an rtek 2.1
05-23-08, 11:22 AM
#6
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
this guy ran his auxilary ports off vacuum: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=517463
another way to do it use the stock airpump with an rpm switched solenoid valve: http://www.idahorotary.com/6portsolution.htm , similar to the s5's . you could switch it with a summit RPM switch or even better, switch it from an rtek 2.1
another way to do it use the stock airpump with an rpm switched solenoid valve: http://www.idahorotary.com/6portsolution.htm , similar to the s5's . you could switch it with a summit RPM switch or even better, switch it from an rtek 2.1
For example: Limited vacuum at WOT (when you need the ports to open at 3800)
For example: Massive vacuum at lift throttle (when you need the ports closed).
The exact opposite of then you need vacuum to make it work.
It is a bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad approach.
You are radically better to just use the air pump output. The dump line on a S4 vents at 3800 and at 2.8 PSI, so you have plenty of pressure to open the ports correctly and operate as designed.
05-23-08, 11:59 AM
#7
The vacuum set up is way way bad, and not what you really want to do.
For example: Limited vacuum at WOT (when you need the ports to open at 3800)
For example: Massive vacuum at lift throttle (when you need the ports closed).
The exact opposite of then you need vacuum to make it work.
It is a bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad approach.
You are radically better to just use the air pump output. The dump line on a S4 vents at 3800 and at 2.8 PSI, so you have plenty of pressure to open the ports correctly and operate as designed.
For example: Limited vacuum at WOT (when you need the ports to open at 3800)
For example: Massive vacuum at lift throttle (when you need the ports closed).
The exact opposite of then you need vacuum to make it work.
It is a bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad approach.
You are radically better to just use the air pump output. The dump line on a S4 vents at 3800 and at 2.8 PSI, so you have plenty of pressure to open the ports correctly and operate as designed.
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05-23-08, 12:02 PM
#8
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
I read about that. It's the picture with the blue vacuum hose running from the ACV dump, right? I've been considering doing that, but I'm not sure what thread to search for as it was a few years before my time. I'm game to attempt it and make a new thread chronicling my results if the process for the split air pipe does not work. I'll see if I can find it.
Time proven, and no extra valves, or welding or anything.
05-27-08, 01:25 AM
#10
OK, made some progress. The back actuator is moving, but I had to apply 20 psi through an air compressor. The front actuator is not moving at this time. They are not stuck. You can still move them by hand, but they are not actuating on their own. I'm assuming it's a bad seal on the gaskets for the actuators as there does not seem to be enough back pressure getting the the actuator farthest away from the split air pipe.
I'm thinking some gasket sealer or new gaskets on the actuators will help the system be more efficient and get the back pressure where it needs to go. Thoughts?
I have yet to get the split air pipe checked out as my starter went out over the weekend (had a spare-swapped it out already), but next weekend i'll know for sure if it's the pipe or not.
I'm thinking some gasket sealer or new gaskets on the actuators will help the system be more efficient and get the back pressure where it needs to go. Thoughts?
I have yet to get the split air pipe checked out as my starter went out over the weekend (had a spare-swapped it out already), but next weekend i'll know for sure if it's the pipe or not.
05-27-08, 02:10 AM
#11
The backpressure method is just useless. With or without cats, mine never worked.
Using an RPM switch, solenoid & the air pump is very easy, and very effective. Just keep in mind that the ACV will dump air into the silencer tube above 3500 RPM, which will cause a pressure drop in your line to the actuators. I got around this by sticking a plastic cap with an 1/8 hole in the silencer tubing. This lets the air still vent off, but the system retains the pressure you need. I welded a fitting on the back of my air pump, but it can be done on the ACV as well. It'll be a bit of a challenge to make something permanent that will neck the silencer tube down to a 3.5mm silicon hose if you tap into it directly.
Using an RPM switch, solenoid & the air pump is very easy, and very effective. Just keep in mind that the ACV will dump air into the silencer tube above 3500 RPM, which will cause a pressure drop in your line to the actuators. I got around this by sticking a plastic cap with an 1/8 hole in the silencer tubing. This lets the air still vent off, but the system retains the pressure you need. I welded a fitting on the back of my air pump, but it can be done on the ACV as well. It'll be a bit of a challenge to make something permanent that will neck the silencer tube down to a 3.5mm silicon hose if you tap into it directly.
05-27-08, 02:45 AM
#12
The backpressure method is just useless. With or without cats, mine never worked.
Using an RPM switch, solenoid & the air pump is very easy, and very effective. Just keep in mind that the ACV will dump air into the silencer tube above 3500 RPM, which will cause a pressure drop in your line to the actuators. I got around this by sticking a plastic cap with an 1/8 hole in the silencer tubing. This lets the air still vent off, but the system retains the pressure you need. I welded a fitting on the back of my air pump, but it can be done on the ACV as well. It'll be a bit of a challenge to make something permanent that will neck the silencer tube down to a 3.5mm silicon hose if you tap into it directly.
Using an RPM switch, solenoid & the air pump is very easy, and very effective. Just keep in mind that the ACV will dump air into the silencer tube above 3500 RPM, which will cause a pressure drop in your line to the actuators. I got around this by sticking a plastic cap with an 1/8 hole in the silencer tubing. This lets the air still vent off, but the system retains the pressure you need. I welded a fitting on the back of my air pump, but it can be done on the ACV as well. It'll be a bit of a challenge to make something permanent that will neck the silencer tube down to a 3.5mm silicon hose if you tap into it directly.
I can blow air through the actuator when it is off the car and it will move, but not on the car which is leading me to believe that the seal between the UIM and the actuator is not ideal.
Thank you for the picture. I'm still kinda confused on fabbing that whole setup and will read into it more if I decide to move in that direction. At this point i've put so much time into making them work that I want to be sure there is not some small thing i have overlooked and is easily fixed before diving in and ordering the parts to do the rpm switch activated ports.
05-27-08, 08:01 AM
#13
You'll find the air pump activation method in the Archives at the top of this section.
I may have missed it, but didn't read about you taking the valves out and cleaning them and the port hole in each of the side housings. You said they're moving free, but it should only take < 5 PSI to move them open, and you're at 20P PSI and only one moves. You're probably right about having an air leak too, but you should hear that at 20 PSI. Use new gaskets.
I've mentioned this before in other threads about the subject...so I'll bring it up again, because no one double-checked my reasoning:
The air relief passage, according to the training manual (not FSM), opens not only above a certain RPM, but also at other times too. In theory, I believe the ports will open at times you don't want to. Therefore, the RPM switch method seems the best, even considering the extra parts/work.
I wanted to go the easy route and just hook up the auxiliaries to the ACV air intake area, but as mentioned, this isn't too reliable when you have the rest of the system stock (i.e. ACV dumping air to cat or relief).
I may have missed it, but didn't read about you taking the valves out and cleaning them and the port hole in each of the side housings. You said they're moving free, but it should only take < 5 PSI to move them open, and you're at 20P PSI and only one moves. You're probably right about having an air leak too, but you should hear that at 20 PSI. Use new gaskets.
I've mentioned this before in other threads about the subject...so I'll bring it up again, because no one double-checked my reasoning:
The air relief passage, according to the training manual (not FSM), opens not only above a certain RPM, but also at other times too. In theory, I believe the ports will open at times you don't want to. Therefore, the RPM switch method seems the best, even considering the extra parts/work.
I wanted to go the easy route and just hook up the auxiliaries to the ACV air intake area, but as mentioned, this isn't too reliable when you have the rest of the system stock (i.e. ACV dumping air to cat or relief).
05-27-08, 05:58 PM
#14
You'll find the air pump activation method in the Archives at the top of this section.
I may have missed it, but didn't read about you taking the valves out and cleaning them and the port hole in each of the side housings. You said they're moving free, but it should only take < 5 PSI to move them open, and you're at 20P PSI and only one moves. You're probably right about having an air leak too, but you should hear that at 20 PSI. Use new gaskets.
I've mentioned this before in other threads about the subject...so I'll bring it up again, because no one double-checked my reasoning:
The air relief passage, according to the training manual (not FSM), opens not only above a certain RPM, but also at other times too. In theory, I believe the ports will open at times you don't want to. Therefore, the RPM switch method seems the best, even considering the extra parts/work.
I wanted to go the easy route and just hook up the auxiliaries to the ACV air intake area, but as mentioned, this isn't too reliable when you have the rest of the system stock (i.e. ACV dumping air to cat or relief).
I may have missed it, but didn't read about you taking the valves out and cleaning them and the port hole in each of the side housings. You said they're moving free, but it should only take < 5 PSI to move them open, and you're at 20P PSI and only one moves. You're probably right about having an air leak too, but you should hear that at 20 PSI. Use new gaskets.
I've mentioned this before in other threads about the subject...so I'll bring it up again, because no one double-checked my reasoning:
The air relief passage, according to the training manual (not FSM), opens not only above a certain RPM, but also at other times too. In theory, I believe the ports will open at times you don't want to. Therefore, the RPM switch method seems the best, even considering the extra parts/work.
I wanted to go the easy route and just hook up the auxiliaries to the ACV air intake area, but as mentioned, this isn't too reliable when you have the rest of the system stock (i.e. ACV dumping air to cat or relief).
Look for HAILERS "trouble making thread" for more info on the acv actuator debate. I've heard good reasons from both sides and will probably just use the rpm switch if all else fails.
05-28-08, 08:56 AM
#15
BTW, you never answered whether you cleaned and lubed the actual valves and port runners. This and reusing the gaskets may be at fault for your 6PI not working (assuming you're getting the right backpressure).
05-28-08, 12:29 PM
#16
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
As Paulo mentions, using a RPM switch and extra vacuum valve is by far the best way to go.
The ACV dump line he mentions only has enough pressure at above 3500 RPM to start opening S4 aux ports, so in lift throttle or freeway cruising you don't have to worry about the dump line as the motor is generally not above 3500-3800 RPM.
The only cool thing about the dump valve is that you get staged activation as opposed to instant on activation. In other words, the aux valves open slowly just like the S3 and S4 setups to the exhaust. With the S5 system or RPM switch and vacuum solenoid, you get instant open and instant closed. The opening slowly tends to limit the 3800 hesitation issues when the 2ndary injectors kick in if your engine and ECU grounds are weak.
The ACV dump line he mentions only has enough pressure at above 3500 RPM to start opening S4 aux ports, so in lift throttle or freeway cruising you don't have to worry about the dump line as the motor is generally not above 3500-3800 RPM.
The only cool thing about the dump valve is that you get staged activation as opposed to instant on activation. In other words, the aux valves open slowly just like the S3 and S4 setups to the exhaust. With the S5 system or RPM switch and vacuum solenoid, you get instant open and instant closed. The opening slowly tends to limit the 3800 hesitation issues when the 2ndary injectors kick in if your engine and ECU grounds are weak.
05-28-08, 07:56 PM
#17
I posted in the thread you refer to... https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...+making+thread ... just rephrasing some info learned from that and other threads.
BTW, you never answered whether you cleaned and lubed the actual valves and port runners. This and reusing the gaskets may be at fault for your 6PI not working (assuming you're getting the right backpressure).
BTW, you never answered whether you cleaned and lubed the actual valves and port runners. This and reusing the gaskets may be at fault for your 6PI not working (assuming you're getting the right backpressure).
05-28-08, 07:58 PM
#18
As Paulo mentions, using a RPM switch and extra vacuum valve is by far the best way to go.
The ACV dump line he mentions only has enough pressure at above 3500 RPM to start opening S4 aux ports, so in lift throttle or freeway cruising you don't have to worry about the dump line as the motor is generally not above 3500-3800 RPM.
The only cool thing about the dump valve is that you get staged activation as opposed to instant on activation. In other words, the aux valves open slowly just like the S3 and S4 setups to the exhaust. With the S5 system or RPM switch and vacuum solenoid, you get instant open and instant closed. The opening slowly tends to limit the 3800 hesitation issues when the 2ndary injectors kick in if your engine and ECU grounds are weak.
The ACV dump line he mentions only has enough pressure at above 3500 RPM to start opening S4 aux ports, so in lift throttle or freeway cruising you don't have to worry about the dump line as the motor is generally not above 3500-3800 RPM.
The only cool thing about the dump valve is that you get staged activation as opposed to instant on activation. In other words, the aux valves open slowly just like the S3 and S4 setups to the exhaust. With the S5 system or RPM switch and vacuum solenoid, you get instant open and instant closed. The opening slowly tends to limit the 3800 hesitation issues when the 2ndary injectors kick in if your engine and ECU grounds are weak.
05-28-08, 08:50 PM
#19
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Sleeves removed, pacesetter header, midpipe, monza catback, 23mpg average. I don't know how you drive but I can't really notice the loss of torque, or maybe I've just adjusted to it.
05-28-08, 09:18 PM
#21
The only reason I can think of to deviate from the stock system is if you're not running any cats or if you want very precise actuation... but many people have done it.
I didn't have any luck running mine off of the air pump to acv hose... but I only tried one design.
Maybe the check valve in the split air pipe is stuck. Why don't you put a hose to the actuator nipple on the pipe and put a guage on it where you can see it. Then, take the revs up under load and see what kind of pressure you get and where in the RPM range?
If you need to replace the pipe, you might not need to weld it. Some high temp hose may hold up fine.
I didn't have any luck running mine off of the air pump to acv hose... but I only tried one design.
Maybe the check valve in the split air pipe is stuck. Why don't you put a hose to the actuator nipple on the pipe and put a guage on it where you can see it. Then, take the revs up under load and see what kind of pressure you get and where in the RPM range?
If you need to replace the pipe, you might not need to weld it. Some high temp hose may hold up fine.
05-28-08, 10:19 PM
#22
I noticed it even after taking the motor out of a gutted car with no cats and putting it back in a car with cats. I don't drive that hard, but my gf may say different. I also don't do much freeway driving anymore. I was getting around 350- 400 miles out of a tank when I was commuting.
Last edited by InsomniacFC; 05-28-08 at 10:29 PM.
05-28-08, 10:20 PM
#23
05-28-08, 10:27 PM
#24
The only reason I can think of to deviate from the stock system is if you're not running any cats or if you want very precise actuation... but many people have done it.
I didn't have any luck running mine off of the air pump to acv hose... but I only tried one design.
Maybe the check valve in the split air pipe is stuck. Why don't you put a hose to the actuator nipple on the pipe and put a guage on it where you can see it. Then, take the revs up under load and see what kind of pressure you get and where in the RPM range?
If you need to replace the pipe, you might not need to weld it. Some high temp hose may hold up fine.
I didn't have any luck running mine off of the air pump to acv hose... but I only tried one design.
Maybe the check valve in the split air pipe is stuck. Why don't you put a hose to the actuator nipple on the pipe and put a guage on it where you can see it. Then, take the revs up under load and see what kind of pressure you get and where in the RPM range?
If you need to replace the pipe, you might not need to weld it. Some high temp hose may hold up fine.
I was not running cats before.
05-28-08, 10:46 PM
#25
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