Morondongon

Sup gang, i was talking to one of my buddies and he installed an air to water intercooler on his FC and advised me to do the same. I told him that i wasn't sure if that would work well on a rotary daily driver since the engine runs very hot. He said that it works well with a rotary, and that it runs on a serservour where I could control the temperature. I told him that don't think that for a daily driver that would work well. Anyone has inputs on this? i'm very curious to know. His car is not running yet though. Thanks.

Morondongon

I guess this link sums it all up in a nut shell.

http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced...tercooler.html

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

I amrunning a frozen boost kit on a custom H20 radiator. I daily drive my FC, on a rough 280 RWHP 13B. I haven't being able to track AIT temp, but the tuner said that it works marvelous, in fact, he will be installing a setup on his DD car!

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

FrozenBoost sells both W2A and A2A. Here is their take on the Pros and Cons...

You probably have to join the forums but the Toyota MR2 Owners Club site has a great thread on the subject (with only 15 pages) and it is based on theory and RL experience. Gandalf is the owner of that thread and really seems to know his stuff. That enginebasics.com article seems very biased (to the point I was looking for their A2A intercooler ad) especially given the the Celica AllTrack and Bugatti Veyron both used W2A intercoolers. Here is a link to the thread. A2A intercoolers are hard to do on the MR2 because the engine is in the back. They do all kinds of weird stuff like putting the intercooler in the trunk!

btw, I'm not sure why you think the fact that a rotary runs "hot" would make a difference. The exhaust is hot but beyond the axle in the turbo connecting the turbine to the compressor wheels there wouldnt be any affect on the intake air temps. The radiator may have to work harder to dissipate the heat but the W2A heat exchanger is smaller, thinner and should allow a lot more air to flow thru the radiator.

Do you have picts of your friends W2A setup? KNOFS, you have picts?

Evil Aviator

Wow, those websites really suck. Let's see if I can do a little better since I am not selling anything:

First of all, there are 3 common types of air-liquid intercooler (ALIC) systems. I kinda made up the names because I am not aware of any industry naming standard:
1) Open-loop ambient: Engine coolant circulates through the ALIC, the car's existing radiator is used for cooling, and usually the engine water pump supplies the circulation. This type of system does not cool very well, and it will actually heat the intake charge when off-boost, but it does not add much complexity or weight.
2) Closed-loop ambient: Coolant from a separate radiator circulates through the ALIC, and a separate water pump supplies the circulation. This type of system cools well, but does add complexity and weight. It will heat the intake air slightly when off-boost.
3) Closed-loop supercooled: Coolant from an ice chest (cooled with ice, dry ice, CO2, etc.) circulates through the ALIC, a separate water pump supplies the circulation, and there is usually no radiator because this type of system is mostly limited to dedicated drag cars. The cooling effect doesn't last very long, but even on a hot summer day the coolant is still well below freezing.

An actual performance comparison between an ALIC and air-air intercooler (AAIC):
- An ambient ALIC usually does not cool as well as an AAIC. This is because heat exchangers are not 100% efficient, more like 70% or so. Therefore, after a few minutes of operating, the ALIC coolant will heat soak because the radiator can only cool it down so much. For example, if it is 80F outside, once up to normal operating temperature the ALIC could have 120F coolant flowing through it. Conversely, an AAIC would be cooled with 80F air.
- An ALIC has less pressure drop than an AAIC. The ALIC is usually around 0.05PSI while an AAIC system is usually around 1.5PSI. Less pressure drop means the turbo doesn't need to spool as high to reach a given manifold pressure, which usually translates to slightly faster boost rise and slightly lower intake air temperatures.

The RX-7 does not have space issues like a MR2, and the RX-7 does not usually have a Roots supercharger installed, so in most cases I would recommend an AAIC. However, an ALIC could be a better choice for some applications.

The rotary engine runs with a water temperature of about 185F, which is on par with most other automotive engines. The hot part of the rotary engine is the exhaust, which does not affect this subject.

Morondongon

Well i told that him that in my opinion, i thought that his intercooler was too small, he said that it was good for his set up and that since it was right in front of it it, the cooler air would get to his engine quicker instead of traveling a bit further, and for a DD i don't know. I have a cabin temp on my turbo timer and in a hot summer day it gets extremely hot, like 90 plus degrees inside the car the engine bay has to be a many more degrees hotter and on a stop and go traffic i really don't see it working well on cooling the air that well.

That's the pic of his set up.

Morondongon

Well, i had always thought that rotaries ran much hotter than a piston engine due to the design of the engine.
I agree about the link that i posted it was a bit biased, then again i really think that they could work very well on a track car running 1/4 mile since it will have more time to cool off in between laps.
We all look for a way to improve performance, and i don't think it's a bad idea to try to use it. For all the work and added weight i don't think is worth all the trouble.
I told him that once he gets it on the road i want to see how it runs.

Morondongon

Thank you for the clarification… Like I said before, i thought that the engine ran hotter than other engines. I have a AAIC and i'm cool with it, and when he talked me about this it sounded interested and it looks very well, but so close to the engine and so small… and having a separate tank of water (small) in the back of your car, i don't think is something that i would like to do to my FC. I'll do a METH injection, instead of a ALIC.

10thaniv

iTrader: (1)

Looks like he copied mine. ive been running it for a few years now. I run a closed loop system 400gph water pump, heat exchanger in front of rad, and type 19 intercooler from froozen boost. I also run water injection after the intercooler. AIT stay at ambient.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Are the Type 8s and the Type 4's too big to fit in the TMIC spot? I ask because it always seemed to me that the plumbing advantages of the W2A system (3/4" flexible water lines vs 3" Al tubing) would allow you to retain P/S and A/C and not have to cut big holes in the rad support. But both of the examples show delete at least the P/S and put the I/C in front of the alt.

Just curious on the rationale behind the packaging.

Thanks

10thaniv

iTrader: (1)

I still run power steering, I just relocated it. There is a thread about power steering relocation. I did ditch the ac. I didnt have to cut anything and I can put back to stock if need be. That was my reason to do it this way.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Ah... Deleting AC in TX isn't even a consideration!

10thaniv

iTrader: (1)

Well I only drive it about 1000 miles a year, and never when it over 90F. Windows down, 80+mph, no issues.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Here's a pic of my setup. I really wish I could provide empirical data, hopefully in a few weeks

Morondongon

how do you have your water injection set up? you only put 1k a year? I take it that you don't drive it hard when you take it out? My concern is if you go for a drive or a meet,7hrs in a day, stop and go traffic, driving it hard, how effective are they. Specially in the summer.

Morondongon

That would be awesome

Morondongon

Lol I was in Fort Worth for two weeks last year and it was blazing! A/c full blast

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

Seems like a lot of added complexity for a pretty marginal benefit for anything except a drag car. Does anyone have numbers yet?

10thaniv

iTrader: (1)

I have the cooling mist basic set-up. 150psi pump with a M5 jet. I set the pressure sensor to turn on the pump at 5psi of boost. I only take my 7 out in good weather, its my weekend fun car. I drive to meets and car shows all the time. I do drive it hard. The air to water system would not be good in high heat and stop and go traffic. The only reason I did the air to water set-up was so I didnt have to cut my car up. Very simple system, not as complex as people seem to think.

Morondongon

Cool... I usually do drive my 7 on the weekends and nice days. I love driving it so much that sometimes i just drive it the whole week!!! and there are times that i do hit a lot of traffic. So it could be safe safe to assume that it would not be a good investment or would not be efficient in high heat and stop and go traffic, and that it would work best if used on anyother conditions possibly over ATAIC. Some data to support this would be awesome.