kwiknez

I dont have a T2 yet, but I am working on that. I was wondering if I had a FMIC, could I convert the stock intercooler location into an Air Filter. Kinda like a ram air deal. What do you think? Would it be possible?

Evil Aviator

No, the hood area near the IC scoop is subjected to a vacuum at speed, so it would actually inhibit airflow if you tried that. The only way that it would work for a ram air effect is if you cut out the stock scoop and mounted a reverse scoop (aka cold air scoop) to pull the high-pressure air from the intersection of the hood and windshield.

Just about the best breathing setup for a rotary engine is a bellmouth inlet (aka trumpet). You could build a box around the trumpet, and feed it with ram air through a high-flow filter and associated plumbing. It would probably be best just to get the car first, and then see what you have to work with.

Here is an aerodynamic pic of the 2Gen. I don't know what speed this is at, but I'm guessing 55mph. Anyway, the arrows pointing toward the car indicate high-pressure (ram) air, and the arrows pointing away from the car indicate low-pressure (vacuum) areas. Note how the brilliant designers at Mazda incorporated a natural downforce on the rear deck without using a nasty drag-inducing spoiler. It's too bad that they didn't plan the IC scoop better, though.

supergoat

WOW, that picture is fantastic! Thanks for posting, I saved it.

kwiknez

Thanks for the info, but why do some drag cars have hood scoops that ram air into their carbs. Wouldnt the same principal apply. Great Pic though.

Evil Aviator

I'm not sure what you are talking about, as most drag cars have their intakes mounted well above the slipstream like this:
http://www.wediditforlove.com/images/kansas_john_3.jpg
or at the hood/windshiled junction like this:
http://www.bluthunder.com/images/MainCollage.jpg

I guess that some cars would have aerodynamics that would allow for an effective central-mount flush ram scoop, but I would think that most of the cars you see with such a mod were done by people who did not consider aerodynamics when designing the scoop.

Hey, if you want to make your TII scoop into an intake, then go right ahead. The engine WILL work, but I seriously doubt that you would gain any ram air effect with such a setup.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Doesn't ram air not work w/ stock MAF sensor since even at low speeds it forces the meter open and causes bad running? I though cold air is all we could aim for w/ stock meter??
That picture is sweet!! Just what I wanted to see too as someday on my theoretical lysholm S/C set up the intake would be right at the firewall (w/ a duct in the hood, nice)

kwiknez

I am not sure why it wouldn't work, since I see a lot of other cars that have hood scoops like the T2. For instance the Camaro SS has a hood scoop similiar to the 7.How does that work then??

Dyre

It will work, but your NOT going to gain any performance.

You've been show why-

Mykl

A Camaro is not an RX-7.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

Is the Camaro SS's hood scoop actually listed as functional? A lot of car manufacturers just like the "look."

TonyTurboII

From what ive heard it doesent gain too much functionality until your going atleast 90 mph. I would buy a Raim Air T/A over that, its scoops seem to function better....

kwiknez

If making the intercooler into a air intake wouldnt gain any performance, how does a K&N intake gain any performance if it barely gets any air to begin with? Pushing air into the Filter from the scoop would give it a hell of a lot more air than the regular aftermarket intakes. Am I wrong here? And I know that a Camaro is not a RX7, I was just using the picture as an example of the hood scoop. And yes the hood scoop is functional on the SS. So I have been told anyway.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

Look at a stock airbox very carefully. The air has to go through a long snorkel, then it makes it's way to the actual box. Then it has to somehow find a way to get through the tiny opening between the top of the airbox and where the filter begins. Then it must get through the filter, and finally makes it's way into the manifold. The actual box is the most restrictive part, get rid of that and you do open your intake a lot. If I had good pictures, it would make that a lot easier to visualize, it's kind of hard to explain in words.

Another thing is, on a turbocharged car, the turbo is acting as a "ram air" in a sort of way. It is compressing the air to get more of it through the engine. Ram air acts as a way to use the speed of the car to force the air through a straight path into the manifold.

kwiknez

But wouldnt this way be a way of making the air go into the manifold a hell of a lot quicker than the traditional air intake way. I am not understanding why it wouldn't work. The hood has a scoop in it, with the intercooler in place it pushes air onto the intercooler. Why wouldnt it be the same principal if there was an air filter there instead of the intercooler. This way the air is pushing right into the filter which goes right into the manifold. Plus limiting the distance the air has to go to begin with. Thus more air flow. If the aero dynamics depicted above say that this wouldnt work for a air filter, than how does it work for the intercooler??

Evil Aviator

The K&N filter has a higher flow (less restriction) than a standard paper element, which reslults in less drag on the airstream. It has nothing to do with ram air.
http://www.knfilters.com

Look at the RX-7 picture again. Which way are the arrows going where the intake of the hood scoop would be? It's not pushing air into the scoop, it is pulling air away from it. The engine will easily win the tug-of-war contest, but there is no point in putting it through this struggle IMO.

All of the data I have seen on the ram air F-Bodies has been off a dyno where there is no ram air effect, or much of any other aerodynamics involved for that matter. It is quite possible that it does gain a ram air advantage at speed, as these cars will have a different aerodynamic profile than the RX-7, however I have not seen any statistics supporting this. Please post any info if you have it, as I really like aerodynamics, regardless of the vehicle make. BTW, my friend has a killer SLP Camaro. You should check under the hood of one of those things if you ever get the chance. Oh, and here's an interesting thread from the SLP forum: http://www.hoodscoop.com/cgi-bin/ult...c&f=1&t=000930


Well, I know of a certain NA RX-7 racer who used ram air with good results, but he recently installed a Wolf3D which does away with the restrictive stock MAF (and also compensates for ram effect), and performance increased greatly. I guess that in theory the stock MAF and ECU would have trouble with ram air, but I don't see why anyone would even bother with these stock components when much better alternatives are available. A lysholm S/C eh? Have you seen the BBM S/C? It does something like 80% efficiency at 1 Bar. Maybe you could use the existing AC ducts?

kwiknez

Thanks for all the info, I understand what you are talking about now. Just had to know if it was possible. I guess not. I was searching around on the internet and found this picture. I would hate to come up against this.
Here are the stats for the car pictured.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/carChosen.asp?car_id=176

Evil Aviator

Um, that ZL1 is really nice, but it's just a prototype, so I don't think that you will be coming up against it any time soon. If you did come up against it, you would need a whole lot more than ram air. I would recommend something like this, which would cost less than half as much as the ZL1 but give it a good run for its money:
http://www.hitman.hm/rx7.htm