04Green

Love the 152 thread.

I have an 86, not a lot of history, but it has new, 132 style, high and low side ports I am assuming it was converted at one time.

Once I solve the electrical issues, I was planning on the 152 mod.

If it was previously converted, and if it has a little 134 left in the system (15 psi static pressure) can I mix 152 with whatever oil would have been compatible with the conversion? Of course there would be a session on the vacuum pump first. From the last post in the thread, OP did this with is 04 mazda 6 (a 134 car).

As for the leak, the car was sitting for 6 years and when I pulled the high side cap, there was some pressure behind it. I tightened the valve.

Thanks,

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

No. just get it done properly with R134A. Mixing refrigerants is a recipe for causing the oil to sludge up and take out the compressor.

Typically, a R134a conversion is flushed and they use PAG oil. For an 86, I would use PAG100 and recharge with Pure 134A. DO NOT USE ANY SEALANT!!!

Take it to a shop to get evacuated and you can vacuum it at home, bu be aware that if you mix refrigerants, no shop will want to touch it. Mixing makes it all but impossible to recycle the stuff, since the machine itself does the recycling by filtering and cleaning. By mixing, you have just contaminated a machine and that's a very bad day.

Since it is low on charge, and even if it has 15 psi, its probably just air, Not refrigerant in the system. You will want to replace the receiver drier at minimum and go from there. You can charge at home, but do not use those kits you find at your local AutoZone. They have sealant and that stuff clogs parts. If there is a leak, fix it. It's not difficult and the sealant will clog an AC machine at a shop. They will not touch your car.

Venting AC to the air is a felony and illegal under the Clean Air Act. If you get caught, not that anybody does, but if you are expect serious fines and prison time. Do it right. Get it evacuated and charged by a professional, but you are able to replace parts at home.

One thing that really does bother me is that AutoZone and other chain stores sell AC recharge kits to the public. In order to work in a shop on AC, I had to pass a refrigerant handling test 609 mandated by the EPA. Yet, a person can walk into a store and buy a kit that tampers with AC and can cause a handling error to occur.

To summarize: Do not use mixes. Do not use alternative refrigerants. Do the job correctly, or not at all.

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

with the vast history of r152, you sir are out of the loop.

other then that, yeah, dont mix them, dont use r134a oil with r152a..

if you loved that thread soo much go back and read why the oils are not compatible.

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

I guess I am out of the loop, but I am against using non-OE approved refrigerants. I work in a shop, so I do things by the book. If a car is already converted to 134A, leave it as such, that way anyone can service it. Also, R152a is flammable. It may not be able to sustain a fire, but I would not take that chance. Propane is an excellent refrigerant as well, but it turns a car into a bomb. R152 shouldn't turn a car into a bomb, anymore than a car already is.

If you want to use R152a in your car, its your car not mine.

If someone already spent the $1000 odd dollars to convert, then repair it and run it that way. The AC will likely never get as cold as old R12, but at least it will have been serviced with what I would call the proper refrigerant.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

To the OP: the 152 thread is not locked. Don't mix refrigerants because you won't get good performance. Don't add R152 to a viable R12 system, because the mineral oil is not miscible in 152-you'll trash your compressor.

To ACR:. I too am 609 and 608 certified. 134a is tetra-fluoroethane. 152a is di-fluoroethane. Chemically similar and are compatible with the same lubricants. PAG Ester etc, but not mineral. They won't sludge with mineral oil, they just won't carry the oil through the system. Compressor failure is likely. Now, PAG is trouble in a conversion. PAG is a bad idea in any system that was originally R12 and mineral oil. No one is going to flush an old system clean enough to allow PAG to work well. PAG will sludge your R12 mineral oil system. Ester is a better choice for conversions. It also works well for R12. I use PAG only in systems that were and always have been PAG.

134a is not a good refrigerant in a stock FC because we have insufficient condenser capacity.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

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misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

One thread was locked in 1st gen.
it is now back OPEN.

jjwalker

I did a lot of research when I recently fixed my AC and what I read said that ester oil will mix with the old mineral oil and then the refrigerant will circulate it.

Just from first hand experience, I know the mineral oil is moving about my system because when I was servicing it, I got AC oil on my shirt and could smell it.

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Ester oil will mix, to an extent, with mineral oil. PAG oil will not.

All of the conversions that I have done I have replaced all components, usually because everything was already trashed, so I use PAG oil since I know all parts are new. Molecularly, R12 is larger that R134a, so the seals also must be replaced in a conversion, other wise they will end up leaking.

jackchild, I know that 134a is not a good refrigerant to use, especially since the condensors are so small. Every R12 conversion I have done, I have added an additional fan to the condensor to try and help, but it still is not as good as R12. There have been times where I have installed a condensor out of a newer car designed for R134a, but that is a case by case basis. I also charge conversions using temperature charts and temp drop tests to make sure the system is correctly charged. I have found that, even on R134a cars I repair, that new parts sometimes are not the same size internally and can have a different performance than factory.

jjwalker

I have full 152a conversion with minimal mineral oil and 3oz of ester and it blows ice cold with no leaks. R-12 is the bees knees, but is ultra expensive. $60 for a 12oz can is insane when you can get a directly compatible 152a duster can for 4.99 at walmart.

I blows at 36* as of today, vent thermometer temperature. I used it 10 minutes ago.

You say it is flammable, yes it is under extreme conditions, but look at the new alternative, 1234yfo. It is so flammable, that german and european manufacturers are not using it. They are now considering CO2. 1234yf makes so much acid during a fire, it is more likely to kill you than the car accident.

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

I honestly have zero experience in 1234yf. I have not seen any cars come in with it and I have not gone to an AC training class in about 2 years. When I went, they mentioned that it's coming, but we did not cover much more than that. Also, a quick google search and at least one article states otherwise about the flammability claims.

One article from 2012 states that MB will not use it, then three years later they have changed their tune. I have read in trade magazines about the possibility of CO2 and other alternatives, but until I start seeing a rush of cars needing R1234yf service, I will look into the new service procedures. It appears it operates almost identically and it just requires a new machine. The shop I am at doesn't have a new machine yet, but I'm sure we will in the next year or so.

Relax - R1234yf Is Not The End Of The World -

Honeywell defends R1234yf refrigerant against Daimler : TreeHugger

Daimler sounds alarm on new AC refrigerant, may be flammable - Autoblog

https://www.ihs.com/country-industry...ID=10659106922



I'm not here to mislead or bash a refrigerant. I just personally do not condone use of refrigerants that are not OEM approved and used. If I had kept AC on my car, I would consider R152 since the results speak for themselves.

jjwalker

GM actually considered using r-152a in the early 2000's and there is an SAE paper on it from 2002. They didn't do it because of the flammability issue, but it's funny now because 1234yf requires the exact same safety equipment on the AC system r-152a does. What i find amazing is, the claims of how great 1234yf is for the environment. "Only 4 years atmospheric lifetime!, lower GWP!" Thats great but r-152a stays in the atmosphere for on 1.5-2.5 years, it also has a GWP WAY lower than 134a and 1234. Why wouldn't honeywell defend it? They own the patent on it!

I am not refrigerent bashing, I am arguing the fact that the automotive industry is being ****** by big chemical and stupid government regulation that makes no sense. HW and Dupont are going to make a killing on this stuff, and I can guarantee they have an epic army of lobbyists and lawyers.

If you dig around on the EPA's website, r-152a is a legally approved replacement for r-134a and r-12.

On another related note, HCFC-22 is the most stable chlorine containing refrigerent, yet we are replacing it with an extremely flammable mixture of propane in homes. To flush these systems for the new explosive crap, they use CFC-11, one of the most ozone eating, very very high GWP refrigerants on the planet....makes sense right?

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

I'm with you there. It's all red tape bureaucracy. My favorite example of government stupidity and oversight is the engine swap laws that vary from state to state. In Washington state, it is illegal to put an engine in a car that did not have it as a factory option. The engine must be same age, or newer. Ok, that's fine and all, but you're telling me that the 1989 FC Rx7 that I have, which is a dirty car out the pipe in the grand scheme of things, is better with a stock rotary engine, but swapping an LS1 into is is a big no-no. Even the state of California allows that.

I will make the time to do more research into the various refrigerants, but I probably will not see any R152a in my area. I don't know about where you live, but people up here can live without AC, so they sometimes will not fix it. If they do, we charge with what the car calls for, unless we do a refit to R134. R134 refits are getting rare. I used to do them all the time, but in the past 5 years, we have probably done two refits.

You're not wrong about lobbyists. You get enough of the vocal minority to talk, and they move mountains.

jjwalker

It's kind of like what Chris Rock said in Rush Hour..."Follow the rich white man!". lol.

I live in Texas...kinda need that AC. sitting in traffic for 2 hours with no AC and it's 140* in your car kind of sucks....did it for years though.

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Yikes! Every so often, it does pick up in temperature, but I could live without AC. My wife on the other hand, claims that she will die in the heat.

Then again, we have been hitting record high temps every year, so in about 20 years at present rate, I may need AC =.