0 compression
07-12-09, 10:11 AM
#76
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i had it on a charge all night last night.and i tried my brothers battery that is in his dd and it does the same thing.everything works but the car wont start.im going to go home and mess around with it for a little bit.if nothing works im going to assume its the starter and try to jump it.my old 300zx was doing the same thing
07-12-09, 10:15 AM
#77
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oh and forgott to add.the flapper was so stuck i had use a screwdriver and push it open.then spray some wd into it and let it sit now it moves aton better.
07-13-09, 08:08 PM
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ok it was the starter.i beat on it for a while and now its back to where i left off.i did the timing thing you were talking about and that helped now its firing alot more.but still no start.i will let it sit and try to let it air out tonight,and try it again in the morning.i tow started it again now that the air box flapper is free and it smokes a ton now.but still wont stay running.
07-13-09, 08:24 PM
#79
Somewhere on this thread was a picture of a yellow connector. Find that connector on your car and jumper it to see if the fuel pump is working. You can hear it whine when you jumper it (key must be on)
Try starting it with the fuel pump jumpered.
So can you drive it when tow started?
Try starting it with the fuel pump jumpered.
So can you drive it when tow started?
07-13-09, 08:42 PM
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im pretty sure.i dont see any lines disconnected.the pipe is hooked up tight.another question i had.the throttle body,the flaps in the front are those supposed to be open or closed?and you said that the car should not try to start with the clutch not pushed in,but when i do it in gear and turn the key without the clutch the car will creep forward for how everlong i have the key on.is this normal?i know my way around cars i just want to double check everything about this car because i know nothing when it comes to rotorys. but hey im trying 
and how would i double check for a vaccume leak or for unmetered air?
and how would i double check for a vaccume leak or for unmetered air?
07-13-09, 09:01 PM
#83
They should be open, if I remember correctly. There's a vacuum solenoid on the front of the TB that closes them when vacuum is applied, then slowly opens them when you hit the gas. That won't cause a no-start though, so go ahead and cross that one off.
I'm not too sure if all FC's had the clutch safety switch or not, but usually the clutch is required to be pressed down before starting. Don't worry, that has nothing to do with your no-start condition either. Just leave it in neutral while cranking and nobody will die.
Unfortunately, the only way to check for vacuum leaks right now is to do a thorough visual inspection. Usually you can do it with the car running and a can of brake cleaner or carb spray, but you don't have that option.
Did you download the FSM from Rx7city.com yet? Get it and go through the fuel/emissions section. Start testing things like the MAF and MAP sensors. Make sure your plug wires are routed correctly. If all else fails, pull that exhaust manifold and see if your apex seals are actually toast. I still really doubt that you can get 0psi on all 6 faces across both rotors, but the previous owner may have really screwed you. I mean, have you ever heard of someone trying to suck sand in their intake to port the engine? There are dumb people out there.
I'm not too sure if all FC's had the clutch safety switch or not, but usually the clutch is required to be pressed down before starting. Don't worry, that has nothing to do with your no-start condition either. Just leave it in neutral while cranking and nobody will die.
Unfortunately, the only way to check for vacuum leaks right now is to do a thorough visual inspection. Usually you can do it with the car running and a can of brake cleaner or carb spray, but you don't have that option.
Did you download the FSM from Rx7city.com yet? Get it and go through the fuel/emissions section. Start testing things like the MAF and MAP sensors. Make sure your plug wires are routed correctly. If all else fails, pull that exhaust manifold and see if your apex seals are actually toast. I still really doubt that you can get 0psi on all 6 faces across both rotors, but the previous owner may have really screwed you. I mean, have you ever heard of someone trying to suck sand in their intake to port the engine? There are dumb people out there.
07-13-09, 09:08 PM
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haha.i have a manual and yes i downloaded that one.i guess tomorrow i will take the exhaust off and take a peak at the seals.but i have not seen any vacuum lines off.i will take some pictures of the engine bay and who knows maybe you can spot something i dont.
07-14-09, 04:28 PM
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ok i did find one line off.i dont know what it goes to.on the right side of the bay,near the battery those 4 colored connectors,the one closest to the front of the car has the line hanging off.the part to put it back on is broken off.
07-15-09, 09:51 AM
#88
Sounds like the nipple on the boost sensor is broken off, but go apeshit with a camera and take pictures of that and all over the engine bay.
I re-read all pages in the thread and have a few notes
1. I saw nothing posted by OP that confirmed he had wet sparkplugs or smelled gas in the exhaust. You need to check fuel is actually going into both chambers. I have a theory on that, more below.
2. Post 37, pic. 3: That single wire plug is unrelated to your problem. Some cars (depending on options) came with an auxiliary electric cooling fan. That plug would go to a thermo switch which in turn would close a relay and turn on the fan.
3. Post 37, pic.4: ***Pay attention to this area*** If that is the hose coming off the back of the intake manifold (which has a passage to the Air Control Valve), you need to put a cork in it or block it off some other way. If that's the hose I'm talking about, it sends air to the main cat. If you don't have the split air pipe that goes to the cat, you need to block off that hose. Why? Under deceleration, the Anti-Afterburn valve lets in air via that hose, feeding some air to the intake, essentially giving the engine a little air so it doesn't backfire. As I said, that hose usually goes to the split-air pipe. The split air pipe has a one way valve in it. That prevents air from going back. So the anti afterburn valve in the ACV (air control valve) can only give a bit of air from the air pump. As you have it now, you need to block the hose off.
BTW, (Agreen, I agree with your reasoning but it gets confusing) let's agree on correct terminology...The boost sensor is the one with the vacuum hose mounted on the right shock tower (our NA's do produce boost - very little, but some - due to the supercharging effect of the intake). The part below the air filter is the AFM - airflow meter (with the flap). The AFM has an internal fuel pump switch which closes when the flap moves from the stop (edit: Agreen, you mentioned that already). No MAP, no mass airflow meter on our cars (which uses a hot wire cooled by airflow to determine mass of air).
There is a way of adjusting the TPS when cold. It's a bit tricky. At the back of the TB, you have the thermowax that warms up with coolant passing the TP, which pushes on a lever that has a cam. If you find that assembly and push a flat screwdriver in the right place, you can make the throttles shut down to idle as if the car was warm. You can see the linkage at the front move slightly to idle if you do it right. You would have to hold the screwdriver that way while someone adjusts the TPS. Also, you don't want to push on the adjustment screw for the TPS, or else the whole thing will move and your adjustment is fu*ked. I would try unplugging the TPS, since the computer will ignore it (since it may be adjusted wrong) and go into a fail safe reading.
Something else in this thread:
"Also, try adjusting the timing. You CAN check this cold. Just line up the crank pulley with the peg on the front cover. There's 2 notches on the pulley, use the one to the right. Pull the CAS out, line up the dot on the gear with the tab on the body of the CAS. Put the CAS back in without turning the gear, tighten the bolt down, crank again." --- This is not adjusting the timing. It's good to do if you suspect the CAS is a gear off, but adjusting the timing is actually running the engine warmed up and in idle, with a timing gun to adjust ignition by turning the CAS along the range where the nut is.
Before I forget...more misleading terminology. When you crank over an engine, and the starter is engaging and turning the engine, you say it's turning over. If the starter isn't moving the engine, it's not turning over. Then if the air fuel and ignition are doing the job and the engine comes to life on its own power after you let go of the starter, you say it's starting. BTW, glad to see that part is working for you.
The relay clicking when the engine wasn't turning over was just your Circuit opening relay (I'll call it COR) turning on the circuit for the fuel pump (as it should). When you turn ignition to start, the COR turns on the fuel pump. If the car starts, you let go of the key, obviously. So the current to the coil of the relay that turns on the fuel pump stops. But at that time, the other coil in the COR relay is now getting current, because the AFM flapper moves open because the engine is running. So the CAS stays "on" and continues to feed the fuel pump. I think I've gone too far with this already, so I'll leave it at that.
I re-read all pages in the thread and have a few notes
1. I saw nothing posted by OP that confirmed he had wet sparkplugs or smelled gas in the exhaust. You need to check fuel is actually going into both chambers. I have a theory on that, more below.
2. Post 37, pic. 3: That single wire plug is unrelated to your problem. Some cars (depending on options) came with an auxiliary electric cooling fan. That plug would go to a thermo switch which in turn would close a relay and turn on the fan.
3. Post 37, pic.4: ***Pay attention to this area*** If that is the hose coming off the back of the intake manifold (which has a passage to the Air Control Valve), you need to put a cork in it or block it off some other way. If that's the hose I'm talking about, it sends air to the main cat. If you don't have the split air pipe that goes to the cat, you need to block off that hose. Why? Under deceleration, the Anti-Afterburn valve lets in air via that hose, feeding some air to the intake, essentially giving the engine a little air so it doesn't backfire. As I said, that hose usually goes to the split-air pipe. The split air pipe has a one way valve in it. That prevents air from going back. So the anti afterburn valve in the ACV (air control valve) can only give a bit of air from the air pump. As you have it now, you need to block the hose off.
BTW, (Agreen, I agree with your reasoning but it gets confusing) let's agree on correct terminology...The boost sensor is the one with the vacuum hose mounted on the right shock tower (our NA's do produce boost - very little, but some - due to the supercharging effect of the intake). The part below the air filter is the AFM - airflow meter (with the flap). The AFM has an internal fuel pump switch which closes when the flap moves from the stop (edit: Agreen, you mentioned that already). No MAP, no mass airflow meter on our cars (which uses a hot wire cooled by airflow to determine mass of air).
There is a way of adjusting the TPS when cold. It's a bit tricky. At the back of the TB, you have the thermowax that warms up with coolant passing the TP, which pushes on a lever that has a cam. If you find that assembly and push a flat screwdriver in the right place, you can make the throttles shut down to idle as if the car was warm. You can see the linkage at the front move slightly to idle if you do it right. You would have to hold the screwdriver that way while someone adjusts the TPS. Also, you don't want to push on the adjustment screw for the TPS, or else the whole thing will move and your adjustment is fu*ked. I would try unplugging the TPS, since the computer will ignore it (since it may be adjusted wrong) and go into a fail safe reading.
Something else in this thread:
"Also, try adjusting the timing. You CAN check this cold. Just line up the crank pulley with the peg on the front cover. There's 2 notches on the pulley, use the one to the right. Pull the CAS out, line up the dot on the gear with the tab on the body of the CAS. Put the CAS back in without turning the gear, tighten the bolt down, crank again." --- This is not adjusting the timing. It's good to do if you suspect the CAS is a gear off, but adjusting the timing is actually running the engine warmed up and in idle, with a timing gun to adjust ignition by turning the CAS along the range where the nut is.
Before I forget...more misleading terminology. When you crank over an engine, and the starter is engaging and turning the engine, you say it's turning over. If the starter isn't moving the engine, it's not turning over. Then if the air fuel and ignition are doing the job and the engine comes to life on its own power after you let go of the starter, you say it's starting. BTW, glad to see that part is working for you.
The relay clicking when the engine wasn't turning over was just your Circuit opening relay (I'll call it COR) turning on the circuit for the fuel pump (as it should). When you turn ignition to start, the COR turns on the fuel pump. If the car starts, you let go of the key, obviously. So the current to the coil of the relay that turns on the fuel pump stops. But at that time, the other coil in the COR relay is now getting current, because the AFM flapper moves open because the engine is running. So the CAS stays "on" and continues to feed the fuel pump. I think I've gone too far with this already, so I'll leave it at that.
07-15-09, 10:00 AM
#89
"another question i had.the throttle body,the flaps in the front are those supposed to be open or closed"
There are two pairs of two plates on top. This is the secondary area of the TB, and the secondary plates closest open sligthly after the primary plate on the bottom and are connected to the primary plate. The top plates closest to the air filter side open slowly until the car warms up and then I believe stay open. Anyhow, seems unrelated to your problem, so I'll let you read up on chapter 4A yourself.
****...just remembered...and this goes back to my question of you whether you had both front and rear chambers wet with gas:
On one car I worked on and wasted lots of time on, I had similar symptoms to you. The fuel injector resistor (mounted below the air filter box and to the front of the shock tower), five pin oval plug, wasn't sending current to one of the primary fuel injectors. I was getting fuel to the rail, but not to one of the injectors. Check resistance using an ohmmeter. (let me look for the page...
edit: The FSM I have is 88, so it doesn't have this resistor...but in my haynes manual it is shown. You want to make sure there is resistance between one common wire and all remaining four. You should not get infinity or 0 resistance for any. Around '88 Mazda switched from low res. injectors to high res. and that part was no longer needed. On your 86, it should be there and make sure it's fine.
There are two pairs of two plates on top. This is the secondary area of the TB, and the secondary plates closest open sligthly after the primary plate on the bottom and are connected to the primary plate. The top plates closest to the air filter side open slowly until the car warms up and then I believe stay open. Anyhow, seems unrelated to your problem, so I'll let you read up on chapter 4A yourself.
****...just remembered...and this goes back to my question of you whether you had both front and rear chambers wet with gas:
On one car I worked on and wasted lots of time on, I had similar symptoms to you. The fuel injector resistor (mounted below the air filter box and to the front of the shock tower), five pin oval plug, wasn't sending current to one of the primary fuel injectors. I was getting fuel to the rail, but not to one of the injectors. Check resistance using an ohmmeter. (let me look for the page...
edit: The FSM I have is 88, so it doesn't have this resistor...but in my haynes manual it is shown. You want to make sure there is resistance between one common wire and all remaining four. You should not get infinity or 0 resistance for any. Around '88 Mazda switched from low res. injectors to high res. and that part was no longer needed. On your 86, it should be there and make sure it's fine.
07-15-09, 01:28 PM
#91
Solenoid resistor shown here, post #2, picture #5:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...nsor+reference
I'ts mounted near the bottom of the right shock tower at the front on a bracket with two bolts, has an oval 5-pin plug. 12V+ goes to this (black/yellow wire) with ignition on, then branches out into a resistor for each injector. Easy to check - unplug the solenoid resistor, set your multimeter to resistance, and make sure you have the same resistance reading from one pin (Black/Yellow) to each of the four going to the injectors (Brown/Yellow, Brown/Red, Brown/White, Brown). Obviously, you're looking for a reading which isn't infinity or 0.
I said it was around '88, but now remember seeing a late '87 that didn't have this solenoid resistor. Anyways, you should have it for sure.
BTW, the ECU (fuel ignition computer) supplies ground to activate the injectors.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...nsor+reference
I'ts mounted near the bottom of the right shock tower at the front on a bracket with two bolts, has an oval 5-pin plug. 12V+ goes to this (black/yellow wire) with ignition on, then branches out into a resistor for each injector. Easy to check - unplug the solenoid resistor, set your multimeter to resistance, and make sure you have the same resistance reading from one pin (Black/Yellow) to each of the four going to the injectors (Brown/Yellow, Brown/Red, Brown/White, Brown). Obviously, you're looking for a reading which isn't infinity or 0.
I said it was around '88, but now remember seeing a late '87 that didn't have this solenoid resistor. Anyways, you should have it for sure.
BTW, the ECU (fuel ignition computer) supplies ground to activate the injectors.
07-15-09, 02:02 PM
#92
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jeez i just need you to come look at this car for me i am getting fuel inside(i think) i can def. smell gas on the spark plugs and they are wet.but when i hold a lighter to them they do nothing. and agreen.i tried starting it with the fuel pump connector jumpered like you said and i hear the pump working and when i tried to start it it sounded like it wanted to but then my starter stoped working agian.i think i will buy a new one today while i have the money.
i am getting fuel inside(i think) i can def. smell gas on the spark plugs and they are wet.but when i hold a lighter to them they do nothing. and agreen.i tried starting it with the fuel pump connector jumpered like you said and i hear the pump working and when i tried to start it it sounded like it wanted to but then my starter stoped working agian.i think i will buy a new one today while i have the money.
07-15-09, 02:04 PM
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oh and the sub zero assist,theres a hose running from that that t's off and runs into my intake pipe where it looks to me there should be a vacuum line.going home to take pics now.update soon
07-16-09, 09:07 AM
#96
Post 94, pic 1: Make sure the green plug connector to your coolant thermo sensor is all the way in. Looks a little out.
""" , pic 2: Replace hose or tape up so you don't have a vacuum leak.
""" , pic 3: Leading coil tach hookup wire. Trailing coil has the same. No worries.
Post 94, pic 5 (same as)
Post 95, pic 1: I see the thinner hose from the sub-zero bottle goes to a tee, shown in pics 2 and 3. Where do the hoses go from there (after the tee)? Looks like one side goes to the sub zero injector (pic. to confirm please), but the other is weird (pic. of that also needed).
""", pic 4: Evap. canister drain. No worries.
Did you also check the other points mentioned?
""" , pic 2: Replace hose or tape up so you don't have a vacuum leak.
""" , pic 3: Leading coil tach hookup wire. Trailing coil has the same. No worries.
Post 94, pic 5 (same as)
Post 95, pic 1: I see the thinner hose from the sub-zero bottle goes to a tee, shown in pics 2 and 3. Where do the hoses go from there (after the tee)? Looks like one side goes to the sub zero injector (pic. to confirm please), but the other is weird (pic. of that also needed).
""", pic 4: Evap. canister drain. No worries.
Did you also check the other points mentioned?
07-19-09, 01:14 PM
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i took off the injectors and it let them kinda hang over a bit and start it and no fuel is coming out of both of the top ones.havent checked the others yet.but fuel is getting to the rail.just not coming out of the injectors.could they all be bad??