View Poll Results: Will any rx7 become a collectible?
First Generation
22
40.74%
Second Generation
17
31.48%
Third Generation
36
66.67%
None
6
11.11%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll
Will 7's ever become collectibles?
02-28-12, 08:17 PM
#1
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Will 7's ever become collectibles?
I was looking today for a 7 to buy and a thought came to my mind.
Will any rx7, any generation ever become a collectible car? Japanese cars have an awfully hard time becoming collectible, and rarely achieve a top tier collector status. So what do you guys think.
I know we like our 7's but please try to make it as un-bias as possible thanks
^^^^^VOTE ^^^^
Will any rx7, any generation ever become a collectible car? Japanese cars have an awfully hard time becoming collectible, and rarely achieve a top tier collector status. So what do you guys think. I know we like our 7's but please try to make it as un-bias as possible thanks
^^^^^VOTE ^^^^
Last edited by airman90; 02-28-12 at 08:22 PM.
02-29-12, 02:47 AM
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Are you serious? How "un-bias" of an opinion do you think you're going to get on an RX-7 specific forum?
I would say it is either all or none... But even then, it is safe to assume one generation will be more desirable than the other two. Why didn't you include an "All of the above" option? Or you could have rephrased your question. "Which RX-7 will become a collectable?" <- This question better suits the lack of options to choose from.
Collectors want unmolested OEM parts vehicles with the absolute BEST options in pristine condition. How many of these cars do you believe will make it like that? I suppose we'll find out in 15 years? 20 years? 30 years?!
I say... Who cares? Enjoy it while it lasts. At least it means something to us... Right?
I would say it is either all or none... But even then, it is safe to assume one generation will be more desirable than the other two. Why didn't you include an "All of the above" option? Or you could have rephrased your question. "Which RX-7 will become a collectable?" <- This question better suits the lack of options to choose from.
Collectors want unmolested OEM parts vehicles with the absolute BEST options in pristine condition. How many of these cars do you believe will make it like that? I suppose we'll find out in 15 years? 20 years? 30 years?!
I say... Who cares? Enjoy it while it lasts. At least it means something to us... Right?
02-29-12, 08:48 AM
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Sure certain models will become collectors. but only if in like new shape and not used much. Pray tell how can you enjoy a car while saving it? I have a Superformance S1 with a 13b that is getting a turbo 2 swap, it is a daily driver and seems to sprout more road rash every day. Buy the RX-7 you want and use it for your own pleasure and invest in stocks or buy a real collector, like I didn't. (had the chance to buy the 63 Dodge "hemi-honker" for 5k and didn't) that would have been a collector!
02-29-12, 12:32 PM
#5
I'd say we are already "collectors" of these cars so that makes them collectible
The '79 to '95 RX7's in North America are now 17 to 33 years out of production . How many of us waste hours a week on this forum asking these "collector" kind of useless questions . How many of us have more than one of them in the driveway or hidden away somewhere, or ones that dont even run, or RX7 pillows , coffee mugs etc etc.
They're collectible , they just dont have Barret Jackson type value . I doubt they ever will. The majority of buyers of valueable auto collectibles are men over 50 or the wealthy celebs. I think the biggest buyers of RX7's are under the age of 30 , just starting out with a lot less cash. They only get valuable if the people buying them are willing to pay high prices for them . This is not the case for RX7's. Maybe in 25 years you will be the new old wealty men willing to pay 30K + for a rotary from the 1980's
one thing is for sure , I have no fears I will not be able to get parts somewhere in 25 years for them . There will always be people keeping them alive for us collectors
The '79 to '95 RX7's in North America are now 17 to 33 years out of production . How many of us waste hours a week on this forum asking these "collector" kind of useless questions . How many of us have more than one of them in the driveway or hidden away somewhere, or ones that dont even run, or RX7 pillows , coffee mugs etc etc.
They're collectible , they just dont have Barret Jackson type value . I doubt they ever will. The majority of buyers of valueable auto collectibles are men over 50 or the wealthy celebs. I think the biggest buyers of RX7's are under the age of 30 , just starting out with a lot less cash. They only get valuable if the people buying them are willing to pay high prices for them . This is not the case for RX7's. Maybe in 25 years you will be the new old wealty men willing to pay 30K + for a rotary from the 1980's
one thing is for sure , I have no fears I will not be able to get parts somewhere in 25 years for them . There will always be people keeping them alive for us collectors
02-29-12, 01:01 PM
#6
low production # SA22C
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10th AE TII
most FDs aside from any original red color(most damn common color that people avoid them now)
those are the only 7's that have any 'semblance of collector status, 2nd gens for example were so abundant that they will never be collectors cars even if 99% of them were crushed, simply because at one point they were super common.
i wish i had your enthusiasm.
just about everything produced for the cars even New Old Stock are rotting away with age on shelves, even if people buy something new it won't have the original 25+ year lifespan.
most parts producers swept these cars under the rug from the start, how many parts rebuilders offer reman power steering or A/C compressors or parts for those systems? manual transmission rebuild kits? idle solenoids? ECU? airflow meters? even internal engine parts? there are few that support those parts but not nearly widespread like every other car that ever rolled on 4 wheels even when they were new.
trying to replicate some of these parts is very difficult for us small privateer shops that don't have vacuum moulds or huge FRP machining process stations to remake the breaking aged interior trims.
even with old school cars, pick up a RX2,3, 4 or REPU and try getting a hold of that random part you need. you will be PMing people from all over the globe, my neighbor just bought a 4 and needs tail lights and has had 0 luck getting replacements. unfortunately these cars will never have reproduction support like domestic cars have had.
even finding parts for 2nd gen motors is getting more difficult by the year, finding good unmolested parts. look at the 12A engine for example, it has been abandoned and they are resorting to running later model engines because it is nearly impossible to build the 12A anymore due to discontinued parts. those cars are only a few years older than ours by the way..
i have to keep all of this in mind for the future of business depends on it. there is still the RX8 but even those are now gone.
i know that mazda has said it will continue to develop the rotary engine.. but in all honesty i believe it is now a dead art never to be mass produced again, partly due to mazda's shortcomings with continued failures in engineering them reliably(moving the coolant seals to the irons was a mistake as well as cast iron seals, then with the RX8 not running thicker side seals causing warpage over the side ported exhaust). they did an ok job but not well enough to earn the better reputation that the engine deserved now with people pushing 1000HP from nearly stock engines with minor changes.
i personally do what i can to refurbish the cars as best i can, but for example when you look at your stereo trim and it's in 100 pieces, what to do... all you can do is upgrade to series 5, making the car unoriginal or find one of the few CF/FG replicas that also makes it unoriginal.
GSL-SE
10th AE TII
most FDs aside from any original red color(most damn common color that people avoid them now)
those are the only 7's that have any 'semblance of collector status, 2nd gens for example were so abundant that they will never be collectors cars even if 99% of them were crushed, simply because at one point they were super common.
just about everything produced for the cars even New Old Stock are rotting away with age on shelves, even if people buy something new it won't have the original 25+ year lifespan.
most parts producers swept these cars under the rug from the start, how many parts rebuilders offer reman power steering or A/C compressors or parts for those systems? manual transmission rebuild kits? idle solenoids? ECU? airflow meters? even internal engine parts? there are few that support those parts but not nearly widespread like every other car that ever rolled on 4 wheels even when they were new.
trying to replicate some of these parts is very difficult for us small privateer shops that don't have vacuum moulds or huge FRP machining process stations to remake the breaking aged interior trims.
even with old school cars, pick up a RX2,3, 4 or REPU and try getting a hold of that random part you need. you will be PMing people from all over the globe, my neighbor just bought a 4 and needs tail lights and has had 0 luck getting replacements. unfortunately these cars will never have reproduction support like domestic cars have had.
even finding parts for 2nd gen motors is getting more difficult by the year, finding good unmolested parts. look at the 12A engine for example, it has been abandoned and they are resorting to running later model engines because it is nearly impossible to build the 12A anymore due to discontinued parts. those cars are only a few years older than ours by the way..
i have to keep all of this in mind for the future of business depends on it. there is still the RX8 but even those are now gone.
i know that mazda has said it will continue to develop the rotary engine.. but in all honesty i believe it is now a dead art never to be mass produced again, partly due to mazda's shortcomings with continued failures in engineering them reliably(moving the coolant seals to the irons was a mistake as well as cast iron seals, then with the RX8 not running thicker side seals causing warpage over the side ported exhaust). they did an ok job but not well enough to earn the better reputation that the engine deserved now with people pushing 1000HP from nearly stock engines with minor changes.
i personally do what i can to refurbish the cars as best i can, but for example when you look at your stereo trim and it's in 100 pieces, what to do... all you can do is upgrade to series 5, making the car unoriginal or find one of the few CF/FG replicas that also makes it unoriginal.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-29-12 at 01:21 PM.
02-29-12, 01:06 PM
#7
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The production numbers on rx7's, especially FB's and FC's is crazy high. They will never be collectibles. Maybe sought after as they get older but that is about it.
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02-29-12, 04:03 PM
#8
i dont think the production number would really effect the rx7. there are so few of them on the road as it is. i mean i see more vw bugs and those things are older. maybe the 10th anni would be collectables, but the way i see it. if you like the car and keep it long enough it can become one out of shear rarity that its a RUNNING rx7 lol.
02-29-12, 04:17 PM
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low production # SA22C
GSL-SE
10th AE TII
most FDs aside from any original red color(most damn common color that people avoid them now)
those are the only 7's that have any 'semblance of collector status, 2nd gens for example were so abundant that they will never be collectors cars even if 99% of them were crushed, simply because at one point they were super common.
GSL-SE
10th AE TII
most FDs aside from any original red color(most damn common color that people avoid them now)
those are the only 7's that have any 'semblance of collector status, 2nd gens for example were so abundant that they will never be collectors cars even if 99% of them were crushed, simply because at one point they were super common.
02-29-12, 06:50 PM
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low production # SA22C
GSL-SE
10th AE TII
most FDs aside from any original red color(most damn common color that people avoid them now)
those are the only 7's that have any 'semblance of collector status, 2nd gens for example were so abundant that they will never be collectors cars even if 99% of them were crushed, simply because at one point they were super common.
i wish i had your enthusiasm.
just about everything produced for the cars even New Old Stock are rotting away with age on shelves, even if people buy something new it won't have the original 25+ year lifespan.
most parts producers swept these cars under the rug from the start, how many parts rebuilders offer reman power steering or A/C compressors or parts for those systems? manual transmission rebuild kits? idle solenoids? ECU? airflow meters? even internal engine parts? there are few that support those parts but not nearly widespread like every other car that ever rolled on 4 wheels even when they were new.
trying to replicate some of these parts is very difficult for us small privateer shops that don't have vacuum moulds or huge FRP machining process stations to remake the breaking aged interior trims.
even with old school cars, pick up a RX2,3, 4 or REPU and try getting a hold of that random part you need. you will be PMing people from all over the globe, my neighbor just bought a 4 and needs tail lights and has had 0 luck getting replacements. unfortunately these cars will never have reproduction support like domestic cars have had.
even finding parts for 2nd gen motors is getting more difficult by the year, finding good unmolested parts. look at the 12A engine for example, it has been abandoned and they are resorting to running later model engines because it is nearly impossible to build the 12A anymore due to discontinued parts. those cars are only a few years older than ours by the way..
i have to keep all of this in mind for the future of business depends on it. there is still the RX8 but even those are now gone.
i know that mazda has said it will continue to develop the rotary engine.. but in all honesty i believe it is now a dead art never to be mass produced again, partly due to mazda's shortcomings with continued failures in engineering them reliably(moving the coolant seals to the irons was a mistake as well as cast iron seals, then with the RX8 not running thicker side seals causing warpage over the side ported exhaust). they did an ok job but not well enough to earn the better reputation that the engine deserved now with people pushing 1000HP from nearly stock engines with minor changes.
i personally do what i can to refurbish the cars as best i can, but for example when you look at your stereo trim and it's in 100 pieces, what to do... all you can do is upgrade to series 5, making the car unoriginal or find one of the few CF/FG replicas that also makes it unoriginal.
GSL-SE
10th AE TII
most FDs aside from any original red color(most damn common color that people avoid them now)
those are the only 7's that have any 'semblance of collector status, 2nd gens for example were so abundant that they will never be collectors cars even if 99% of them were crushed, simply because at one point they were super common.
i wish i had your enthusiasm.
just about everything produced for the cars even New Old Stock are rotting away with age on shelves, even if people buy something new it won't have the original 25+ year lifespan.
most parts producers swept these cars under the rug from the start, how many parts rebuilders offer reman power steering or A/C compressors or parts for those systems? manual transmission rebuild kits? idle solenoids? ECU? airflow meters? even internal engine parts? there are few that support those parts but not nearly widespread like every other car that ever rolled on 4 wheels even when they were new.
trying to replicate some of these parts is very difficult for us small privateer shops that don't have vacuum moulds or huge FRP machining process stations to remake the breaking aged interior trims.
even with old school cars, pick up a RX2,3, 4 or REPU and try getting a hold of that random part you need. you will be PMing people from all over the globe, my neighbor just bought a 4 and needs tail lights and has had 0 luck getting replacements. unfortunately these cars will never have reproduction support like domestic cars have had.
even finding parts for 2nd gen motors is getting more difficult by the year, finding good unmolested parts. look at the 12A engine for example, it has been abandoned and they are resorting to running later model engines because it is nearly impossible to build the 12A anymore due to discontinued parts. those cars are only a few years older than ours by the way..
i have to keep all of this in mind for the future of business depends on it. there is still the RX8 but even those are now gone.
i know that mazda has said it will continue to develop the rotary engine.. but in all honesty i believe it is now a dead art never to be mass produced again, partly due to mazda's shortcomings with continued failures in engineering them reliably(moving the coolant seals to the irons was a mistake as well as cast iron seals, then with the RX8 not running thicker side seals causing warpage over the side ported exhaust). they did an ok job but not well enough to earn the better reputation that the engine deserved now with people pushing 1000HP from nearly stock engines with minor changes.
i personally do what i can to refurbish the cars as best i can, but for example when you look at your stereo trim and it's in 100 pieces, what to do... all you can do is upgrade to series 5, making the car unoriginal or find one of the few CF/FG replicas that also makes it unoriginal.
one of my other cars is a 1958 Tr3, and i've taken it to a couple of shows (it doesn't place), and the other triumph people tell me that its nice because its got an original grille and the stainless things in front of the rear wheels. you can buy new ones, but they don't fit, so you need the original one.
so buy the stereo surround new, while they have them! its not expensive
02-29-12, 11:02 PM
#16
i dont think the production number would really effect the rx7. there are so few of them on the road as it is. i mean i see more vw bugs and those things are older. maybe the 10th anni would be collectables, but the way i see it. if you like the car and keep it long enough it can become one out of shear rarity that its a RUNNING rx7 lol.
if we're talking globally then sure, those would actually be pretty high on the list as the few actually modeled RX7's ever produced.
+1, i lol'd at the red fd comment, so true... you're right about the parts situation too, although the super collector cars are the ones with the intact S4 stereo surround, as it were.
one of my other cars is a 1958 Tr3, and i've taken it to a couple of shows (it doesn't place), and the other triumph people tell me that its nice because its got an original grille and the stainless things in front of the rear wheels. you can buy new ones, but they don't fit, so you need the original one.
so buy the stereo surround new, while they have them! its not expensive
one of my other cars is a 1958 Tr3, and i've taken it to a couple of shows (it doesn't place), and the other triumph people tell me that its nice because its got an original grille and the stainless things in front of the rear wheels. you can buy new ones, but they don't fit, so you need the original one.
so buy the stereo surround new, while they have them! its not expensive
i like having my car nice clean and original and seeing people boggle that it has 215k miles and original paint and the interior is relatively in one piece still. but i know the car's value and i can never expect to get much more than $6500 for it, or slightly more if i part it out. it will never wind up on barrett jackson even in a hundred years if i stored it in a time capsule. people would be even more confused that it doesn't use pistons or a fusion reactor core.
every car has it's issues, i just bought a BMW E36 the other day and the test drive went great and i bought it. over the next 2 days of driving it i had a list of about 30 things that i spent the next 3 days working the bugs out of the car on. think a manual convertible top would be more reliable? think again. the '88 FC vert with similar mileage i sold only a few days prior the convertible worked perfectly on. but this vert is much more stylish... but yes, more work. think about the vw bug comment again, they were underpowered so they couldn't break anything in the drivetrain and got good gas mileage because you had no choice. they also had less components, like a radiator and water pump for example, or water flowing through the engine...
but the best thing about these cars is the support. going through one of the many bimmer forums i got irritated sifting through the threads of people who couldn't even change their oil let alone figure out how to fix these rather simple problems or go into any detail whatsoever as to how they came up with a resemblance of a fix to save me some time. you all are blessed with this forum and the support here, forget the collector status or value of these cars, just enjoy them as the free revving spirits that they are and the inevitable rebuilds that they require.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-29-12 at 11:21 PM.
03-01-12, 10:50 AM
#17
Collectible and valuable are two distinct things in my opinion. One can argue they already are somewhat collectible enthusiast cars. They are not valuable in the sense that they will appreciate considerably over time. I can see prices going up ever so slightly, but that could maybe be explained away by inflation.
This topic seems to come up quite a bit lately in some fashion or another. And there have been some high dollar original cars that have sold or been for sale recently. Maybe it's a trend, maybe it's not.
I don't think production numbers really influence collectability. Look at Mustang production numbers. Much more astronomical than SA/FB/FC numbers, but gobs more collectible and valuable. It's all in the desire to own one, and not many people aspire to owning a clean RX-7 one day.
That being said, I cringe at seeing all the beat up RX-7s floating around. I wish there were more people that wanted clean, mostly stock, slightly modified examples. I truly feel that once my restoration is finished, my RX-7 will be in a rare class. But nobody will care and it will only be worth 1/3 to 1/2 of what I've put into it. And I know that going in.
This topic seems to come up quite a bit lately in some fashion or another. And there have been some high dollar original cars that have sold or been for sale recently. Maybe it's a trend, maybe it's not.
I don't think production numbers really influence collectability. Look at Mustang production numbers. Much more astronomical than SA/FB/FC numbers, but gobs more collectible and valuable. It's all in the desire to own one, and not many people aspire to owning a clean RX-7 one day.
That being said, I cringe at seeing all the beat up RX-7s floating around. I wish there were more people that wanted clean, mostly stock, slightly modified examples. I truly feel that once my restoration is finished, my RX-7 will be in a rare class. But nobody will care and it will only be worth 1/3 to 1/2 of what I've put into it. And I know that going in.
03-01-12, 11:56 AM
#18
Collectible and valuable are two distinct things in my opinion. One can argue they already are somewhat collectible enthusiast cars. They are not valuable in the sense that they will appreciate considerably over time. I can see prices going up ever so slightly, but that could maybe be explained away by inflation.
This topic seems to come up quite a bit lately in some fashion or another. And there have been some high dollar original cars that have sold or been for sale recently. Maybe it's a trend, maybe it's not.
I don't think production numbers really influence collectability. Look at Mustang production numbers. Much more astronomical than SA/FB/FC numbers, but gobs more collectible and valuable. It's all in the desire to own one, and not many people aspire to owning a clean RX-7 one day.
That being said, I cringe at seeing all the beat up RX-7s floating around. I wish there were more people that wanted clean, mostly stock, slightly modified examples. I truly feel that once my restoration is finished, my RX-7 will be in a rare class. But nobody will care and it will only be worth 1/3 to 1/2 of what I've put into it. And I know that going in.
This topic seems to come up quite a bit lately in some fashion or another. And there have been some high dollar original cars that have sold or been for sale recently. Maybe it's a trend, maybe it's not.
I don't think production numbers really influence collectability. Look at Mustang production numbers. Much more astronomical than SA/FB/FC numbers, but gobs more collectible and valuable. It's all in the desire to own one, and not many people aspire to owning a clean RX-7 one day.
That being said, I cringe at seeing all the beat up RX-7s floating around. I wish there were more people that wanted clean, mostly stock, slightly modified examples. I truly feel that once my restoration is finished, my RX-7 will be in a rare class. But nobody will care and it will only be worth 1/3 to 1/2 of what I've put into it. And I know that going in.
it is because the used car market at the moment is inflated, people aren't buying new cars as they were years ago so almost all decent running used cars are selling for more than blue book pricing. i was looking at used cars lately and noticed you simply can't find much for less than $3k that is in decent running shape regardless of the blue book value of the car.
many people take this to extremes and try to sell off problematic or non running cars for prices that much better cars are going for, and people with better examples are trying to get twice or even 3 times the blue book value for their cars. it's annoying seeing people being greedy but what 'ya gonna do...
i'm sure it varies from location to location but here right now, i looked for weeks and the only thing you can find for less than that is non running fixer uppers or cars ready to be dropped off at the wrecking yards.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-01-12 at 11:59 AM.
03-01-12, 07:58 PM
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The only two generations i see "maybe" becoming a collector's car would be first gen gsl-se unmolested and third gens. most second gens are either molested or falling apart.
03-03-12, 12:42 PM
#21
It's all about the cars you drooled over when you were a kid. The reason a '69 SS Camaro costs $100,000 today is because every 12 year old in 1969 fiended over one.
Kinda like I did in '92 when the FD came out. Or in '96 when I 1st saw an Elise on the track...
Now those kids are grown up and have money, and they're all trying to buy the few clean Camaros/GTOs/etc. that are still around. At any cost.
Kinda like I did in '92 when the FD came out. Or in '96 when I 1st saw an Elise on the track...
Now those kids are grown up and have money, and they're all trying to buy the few clean Camaros/GTOs/etc. that are still around. At any cost.
03-03-12, 09:34 PM
#22
It's all about the cars you drooled over when you were a kid. The reason a '69 SS Camaro costs $100,000 today is because every 12 year old in 1969 fiended over one.
Kinda like I did in '92 when the FD came out. Or in '96 when I 1st saw an Elise on the track...
Now those kids are grown up and have money, and they're all trying to buy the few clean Camaros/GTOs/etc. that are still around. At any cost.
Kinda like I did in '92 when the FD came out. Or in '96 when I 1st saw an Elise on the track...
Now those kids are grown up and have money, and they're all trying to buy the few clean Camaros/GTOs/etc. that are still around. At any cost.
my '69 elcamino with a built 383 stroker only fetched $3200, granted it needed paint but it also wasn't nearly stock anymore pushing close to 400 crank horsepower. it wasn't matching nor was it a special model SS/RS '68 camaro with vacuum operated headlight covers like my brother has, or my other brother's '70 camaro SS. i sold off the unspecial car and kept my 7, it's quicker, looks better and gets twice the gas mileage. i had more money into balancing/blueprinting the shortblock than i got for that car.
Their cars aren't original anymore either, because there's only a few that are left unmolested not knowing they might appreciate in value someday. although close to it, they still are only a fraction of the value of those cars you may find.
there's no matching numbers with a 7 and only a very short list of desirable models.
i actually fell in love with a second gen when i was a kid and still prefer it over the third gens, many people would probably think that is strange but i still like the feel and look of my car over most others i drive.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-03-12 at 09:39 PM.
03-04-12, 11:57 AM
#23
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the same thing has happened with cars from the 1920's and 30's, the values have sagged, because everyone who wanted a 20's panhard, or a dusenburg are dead.
its kind of too bad too, there were some really advanced cars pre WW2.
*2012-1969 + 12 = 55
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