How to make a beefy N/A? Need your recommendations!
#101
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: spartanburg, south carolina
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey, the MAS from the 89-91 isnt much better. its a big plunger... and its tiny. like 2.25" wide, i think. ive read about getting an MAS from a 92-95 Mazda 929. its supposed to hook right in place of your current one. its got a 3" inlet instead. im planning on using one of those when i reistall my motor if i cant find a better solution.
also, i was planning on leavin the sleeves out too, but if Rob's sleeves are so good, i might use them. but the only thing is, if i remove the sleeves, i can lose the air pump, right? will it affect the intake at all? and what makes Robs sleeves so good?
also, i was planning on leavin the sleeves out too, but if Rob's sleeves are so good, i might use them. but the only thing is, if i remove the sleeves, i can lose the air pump, right? will it affect the intake at all? and what makes Robs sleeves so good?
#102
mad scientist
If you know how I am with modding my car, you should know that I wouldnt just leave something to restrictive as the MAF's Mazda used. Im working on putting a Mustang MAF on my car. Once I finish it, I will be selling the electronics necessary to convert the signal. For those of you that dont know, Mustang MAF's are either 73 or 80 mm hot wire types. They flow very well, especially compared to the pathetic ones Mazda used.
#103
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: olympia,wash
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mazdaspeed7-any idea when your gonna finish with that project?i did not know you where planning to "produce" a adapter,i will definately be interested.how many $'s are you thinki'n its gonna be?thanks
david
hmm....just realiced..you have a 89',dont u?i guess your adapter might not work for my 87'...
david
hmm....just realiced..you have a 89',dont u?i guess your adapter might not work for my 87'...
#104
mad scientist
Originally posted by wankelhead
mazdaspeed7-any idea when your gonna finish with that project?i did not know you where planning to "produce" a adapter,i will definately be interested.how many $'s are you thinki'n its gonna be?thanks
david
hmm....just realiced..you have a 89',dont u?i guess your adapter might not work for my 87'...
mazdaspeed7-any idea when your gonna finish with that project?i did not know you where planning to "produce" a adapter,i will definately be interested.how many $'s are you thinki'n its gonna be?thanks
david
hmm....just realiced..you have a 89',dont u?i guess your adapter might not work for my 87'...
#105
Ya I was looking at my VR6's MAS and there's nothing but a small sensor sticking out the rest is wide open. Whats up wih the trapdoors on ours ? I'd be into that mustang mod when your done.
#106
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: spartanburg, south carolina
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what is this for? the 89-91, or the 86-88? i think they have completely different signals, dont they? anyways, im really intrested, post some pics of the completed project man!
#107
Originally posted by hurleyboi514
what is this for? the 89-91, or the 86-88? i think they have completely different signals, dont they? anyways, im really intrested, post some pics of the completed project man!
what is this for? the 89-91, or the 86-88? i think they have completely different signals, dont they? anyways, im really intrested, post some pics of the completed project man!
Actually Jeff "Woz" over at teamfc3s has re-wired an 89 style to work on his 86 he says its a big improvement.
#108
Pineapple Racer
iTrader: (1)
Hey mazdapeed7, keep us up to date on that project. I'm realy interested.
As far as the stock sleeves goes, they make a hard 90* turn when they are in the open position. Anyone with more than 10 brain cells will know that this realy sucks for making power.
What the PR6S are, is a peice of C&C'd metal, fit into the stock sleeve. What it does is gentaly curve the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chamber. Don't quote me on this but i think Rob said it should be good for around 7-10hp...but he's out of town this weekend, so i can't bug him about it. Blake may know the details about it, because he's been talking to Rob about mass producing these i beleive.
CJ
As far as the stock sleeves goes, they make a hard 90* turn when they are in the open position. Anyone with more than 10 brain cells will know that this realy sucks for making power.
What the PR6S are, is a peice of C&C'd metal, fit into the stock sleeve. What it does is gentaly curve the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chamber. Don't quote me on this but i think Rob said it should be good for around 7-10hp...but he's out of town this weekend, so i can't bug him about it. Blake may know the details about it, because he's been talking to Rob about mass producing these i beleive.
CJ
#110
mad scientist
You cant run a MAP sensor without a computer that was designed for it. The electronics would have to be very complicated for it to work. If you were willing to put enough time/money into a MAP sensor, you should just buy a Haltech or Wolf3D, both of which use a MAP sensor instead of a MAF.
#111
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Topeka, Kansas, USA
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mazdaspeed7-
Definitely keep us up to date. If you get everything to work successfully then I'm in without a doubt!
Thanks, Derek
derek_fullerx@hotmail.com
Definitely keep us up to date. If you get everything to work successfully then I'm in without a doubt!
Thanks, Derek
derek_fullerx@hotmail.com
#112
mad scientist
Heres where Im at now with the Mustang MAF. I made a circuit, but its not quite the right design. It isnt linear enough with amplifying the voltage. But even with it not being correct, Ive still had my car running and idling with NO codes. Drivability as bad due to the mixture being WAY off, but it still ran. On the little bit of driving I did do with it on, I noticed that the throttle response was improved greatly. Im really curious to see just much HP this will be worth.
If anybody missed it before, Im doing this for my 90 GTU. Once I finish mine, I will be doing one for an 86 GXL, so I will be selling the electronics for both series n/a's.
If anybody missed it before, Im doing this for my 90 GTU. Once I finish mine, I will be doing one for an 86 GXL, so I will be selling the electronics for both series n/a's.
#113
Eggs are like fowl cheese
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Daniel Island, SC
Posts: 574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hay mazdaspeed7. When you finish the conversion adapters for the 86-88s, I'm buying one. Infact, I call dibs on the first one. My e-mail address is rotorgoat@hotmail.com, let me know when you finish it.
My other question for you is, I saw how you said cutting the crush washers off the spark plugs will yield more power. You said there was plenty of room still and that you proved this on a 90 block. Would it be safe to assume that it would work just as safely on a 88?
Thanks man!
My other question for you is, I saw how you said cutting the crush washers off the spark plugs will yield more power. You said there was plenty of room still and that you proved this on a 90 block. Would it be safe to assume that it would work just as safely on a 88?
Thanks man!
#114
Om Namah Shivaya
iTrader: (5)
This thread seems to be asking how to build the ultimate N/A motor.
So far, people have been discussing the easy to fairly easy "bolt-on" type mods which yield pretty good HP numbers for an N/A.
We should also be discussing reliability mods.
One simple thing is the thermo-plug mod for the front of your e-shaft. You can also install the 3rd gen oil pressure regulator, for slightly higher oil pressure.
Many oil cooler lines burst without warning, so it would be a good idea to upgrade to s.s. lines as well.
An oil pan baffle from Mazdacomp or Mazdatrix/Racing beat can help you auto-x'rs or track people prevent pressure drop at high RPM.
A happy rotary engine is a cool rotary engine. Make sure your coolant systems are in top notch shape as well. It's a good idea to fluch the coolant system twice a year. When replacing the thermostat, use a factory Mazda one!!! THE AUTO PART STORE THERMOSTATS DO NOT CUT IT!! I went through three Stant thermostats in my AWD talon in less than a month!
And those of you with actual porting experience, I'd love to hear what magic you can work on the 6-port intakes.
I know that using a TII intermediate housing will help when rebuilding an engine because the ports are already bigger than the N/A's, even before starting to port!
Regards,
Shawn
So far, people have been discussing the easy to fairly easy "bolt-on" type mods which yield pretty good HP numbers for an N/A.
We should also be discussing reliability mods.
One simple thing is the thermo-plug mod for the front of your e-shaft. You can also install the 3rd gen oil pressure regulator, for slightly higher oil pressure.
Many oil cooler lines burst without warning, so it would be a good idea to upgrade to s.s. lines as well.
An oil pan baffle from Mazdacomp or Mazdatrix/Racing beat can help you auto-x'rs or track people prevent pressure drop at high RPM.
A happy rotary engine is a cool rotary engine. Make sure your coolant systems are in top notch shape as well. It's a good idea to fluch the coolant system twice a year. When replacing the thermostat, use a factory Mazda one!!! THE AUTO PART STORE THERMOSTATS DO NOT CUT IT!! I went through three Stant thermostats in my AWD talon in less than a month!
And those of you with actual porting experience, I'd love to hear what magic you can work on the 6-port intakes.
I know that using a TII intermediate housing will help when rebuilding an engine because the ports are already bigger than the N/A's, even before starting to port!
Regards,
Shawn
Last edited by busy13b; 12-05-01 at 03:21 PM.
#115
mad scientist
Originally posted by supergoat
Hay mazdaspeed7. When you finish the conversion adapters for the 86-88s, I'm buying one. Infact, I call dibs on the first one. My e-mail address is rotorgoat@hotmail.com, let me know when you finish it.
My other question for you is, I saw how you said cutting the crush washers off the spark plugs will yield more power. You said there was plenty of room still and that you proved this on a 90 block. Would it be safe to assume that it would work just as safely on a 88?
Thanks man!
Hay mazdaspeed7. When you finish the conversion adapters for the 86-88s, I'm buying one. Infact, I call dibs on the first one. My e-mail address is rotorgoat@hotmail.com, let me know when you finish it.
My other question for you is, I saw how you said cutting the crush washers off the spark plugs will yield more power. You said there was plenty of room still and that you proved this on a 90 block. Would it be safe to assume that it would work just as safely on a 88?
Thanks man!
#117
I wish I was driving!
I am thinking about getting a 1990 GTU to have some fun with and drive while the TII is down. I figure with the following list of mods, I could defintely run low 14's, maybe high, high 13's on a stock ported motor.
-9.5 lb flywheel with ACT clutch
-pulleys
-tb mod
-RB header, presilencer, and Apex'i N1 single
-aeromotive external fuel pump, lines, fuel filter, and adjustable fuel pressure regulator
-stock primaries and 720 secondaries fooling the ECU with an s-afc (wideband tuning, EGT gauges, air-fuel of course)
-removed **** (EGR, air pump, ACV, cold start, charcoal canister, etc.)
- no ps, no a/c
- electric water pump
- fd alternator
- intake mounted and fed in fender... mustang trick... cold air, you bet!
- some minor porting and polishing of the intake manifold
- custom 6port actuation system
- ignition with dual coils, wires
- usual suspension **** so it can launch a *bit* better
Then the normal reliability mods: oil pressure regulator, good dyno tuning, alum rad, good compression.
Then, remove weight with some decent seats, convert to protected fuel cell where stock tank used to sit, etc.
And when all thats done, add a 50-75 hp shot of wet Nos, and drop to 13.5., and then up to street port and hit 13.3's.... Thats a fast NA.
What you guys think? I figure all thats possible, and still wind up with a car thats somewhat reliable, a good daily driver, gets better gas mileage then my t2, and can still whoop on the guys at the lights...
Sean Cathcart
-9.5 lb flywheel with ACT clutch
-pulleys
-tb mod
-RB header, presilencer, and Apex'i N1 single
-aeromotive external fuel pump, lines, fuel filter, and adjustable fuel pressure regulator
-stock primaries and 720 secondaries fooling the ECU with an s-afc (wideband tuning, EGT gauges, air-fuel of course)
-removed **** (EGR, air pump, ACV, cold start, charcoal canister, etc.)
- no ps, no a/c
- electric water pump
- fd alternator
- intake mounted and fed in fender... mustang trick... cold air, you bet!
- some minor porting and polishing of the intake manifold
- custom 6port actuation system
- ignition with dual coils, wires
- usual suspension **** so it can launch a *bit* better
Then the normal reliability mods: oil pressure regulator, good dyno tuning, alum rad, good compression.
Then, remove weight with some decent seats, convert to protected fuel cell where stock tank used to sit, etc.
And when all thats done, add a 50-75 hp shot of wet Nos, and drop to 13.5., and then up to street port and hit 13.3's.... Thats a fast NA.
What you guys think? I figure all thats possible, and still wind up with a car thats somewhat reliable, a good daily driver, gets better gas mileage then my t2, and can still whoop on the guys at the lights...
Sean Cathcart
#118
mad scientist
Originally posted by scathcart
- electric water pump
- intake mounted and fed in fender... mustang trick... cold air, you bet!
- usual suspension **** so it can launch a *bit* better
Sean Cathcart
- electric water pump
- intake mounted and fed in fender... mustang trick... cold air, you bet!
- usual suspension **** so it can launch a *bit* better
Sean Cathcart
Hate to burst your bubble again, but you would have to be REALLY creative to get an air filter in the fender. There just isnt room.
If you have been looking into the suspension, you should know that you should keep the rear springrate the same. The stock springs are 110 lb/inch on the back. You can use aftermarket coilover springs, but dont go more than 20% above stock spring rate if you dont want lots of wheel hop. The good news though is that the stock springs will work with coilovers.
The following users liked this post:
rotary#10 (07-06-19)
#119
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Granada Hills, CA USA
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A really good upgrade is to replace the tranny for a TII tranny. However it will be somewhat costly and be ready to also replace the cluth,flywheel,starter,and driveshaft which are components of TII set up. If you have a little more money left you might as well upgrade to a light flywheel,and heavier pressure clutch.
If you get these components will be able to pull away from most convensional FCs.
Frank
If you get these components will be able to pull away from most convensional FCs.
Frank
#120
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Topeka, Kansas, USA
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Dragon Frank
A really good upgrade is to replace the tranny for a TII tranny. However it will be somewhat costly and be ready to also replace the cluth,flywheel,starter,and driveshaft which are components of TII set up. If you have a little more money left you might as well upgrade to a light flywheel,and heavier pressure clutch.
If you get these components will be able to pull away from most convensional FCs.
Frank
A really good upgrade is to replace the tranny for a TII tranny. However it will be somewhat costly and be ready to also replace the cluth,flywheel,starter,and driveshaft which are components of TII set up. If you have a little more money left you might as well upgrade to a light flywheel,and heavier pressure clutch.
If you get these components will be able to pull away from most convensional FCs.
Frank
Already done that. Have a TII diff. with 4:30 gears from Mazdatrix as well. . .
#121
Originally posted by pp13bnos
Hey mazdapeed7, keep us up to date on that project. I'm realy interested.
As far as the stock sleeves goes, they make a hard 90* turn when they are in the open position. Anyone with more than 10 brain cells will know that this realy sucks for making power.
What the PR6S are, is a peice of C&C'd metal, fit into the stock sleeve. What it does is gentaly curve the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chamber. Don't quote me on this but i think Rob said it should be good for around 7-10hp...but he's out of town this weekend, so i can't bug him about it. Blake may know the details about it, because he's been talking to Rob about mass producing these i beleive.
CJ
Hey mazdapeed7, keep us up to date on that project. I'm realy interested.
As far as the stock sleeves goes, they make a hard 90* turn when they are in the open position. Anyone with more than 10 brain cells will know that this realy sucks for making power.
What the PR6S are, is a peice of C&C'd metal, fit into the stock sleeve. What it does is gentaly curve the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chamber. Don't quote me on this but i think Rob said it should be good for around 7-10hp...but he's out of town this weekend, so i can't bug him about it. Blake may know the details about it, because he's been talking to Rob about mass producing these i beleive.
CJ
If you are interested, contact Pineapple Racing at (503) 233-3878 or email Rob at rob@pineappleracing.com .
#122
Originally posted by mprime
"Have you considered a ported Fuel-injected SC rotary?"
Sure but Who makes one no one I know of anymore
"I plan on upgrading my fuel injection and going for 450+HP from a EFI SC setup w/a half bridgeport motor. (I don't think you can get that much from a carbuerated set-up)."
That would be sweet!
"Carbs are a thing of the past."
Sure I realize that but it's fun to speculate. Believe me I would love to get a FI SC system that would bolt on like the old Paxton but unless you know of someone thats making them in secret what other SC is out there?
"Have you considered a ported Fuel-injected SC rotary?"
Sure but Who makes one no one I know of anymore
"I plan on upgrading my fuel injection and going for 450+HP from a EFI SC setup w/a half bridgeport motor. (I don't think you can get that much from a carbuerated set-up)."
That would be sweet!
"Carbs are a thing of the past."
Sure I realize that but it's fun to speculate. Believe me I would love to get a FI SC system that would bolt on like the old Paxton but unless you know of someone thats making them in secret what other SC is out there?
#123
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by mazdaspeed7
I would have recommend for you to stay away from the electric waterpump. It may suffice for drag racing, but I seriously doubt it could cool a rotary efficiently enough for street use.
Hate to burst your bubble again, but you would have to be REALLY creative to get an air filter in the fender. There just isnt room.
If you have been looking into the suspension, you should know that you should keep the rear springrate the same. The stock springs are 110 lb/inch on the back. You can use aftermarket coilover springs, but dont go more than 20% above stock spring rate if you dont want lots of wheel hop. The good news though is that the stock springs will work with coilovers.
I would have recommend for you to stay away from the electric waterpump. It may suffice for drag racing, but I seriously doubt it could cool a rotary efficiently enough for street use.
Hate to burst your bubble again, but you would have to be REALLY creative to get an air filter in the fender. There just isnt room.
If you have been looking into the suspension, you should know that you should keep the rear springrate the same. The stock springs are 110 lb/inch on the back. You can use aftermarket coilover springs, but dont go more than 20% above stock spring rate if you dont want lots of wheel hop. The good news though is that the stock springs will work with coilovers.
So, if you say, wired the pump to run at the speed it runs at 5000 rpms, whouldn't it cool better? High flow of coolant, no water pump cavitation?
Hadn't yet looked at the fenderwell trick yet, but knew it worked well for other cars...
Just thinking about trying some new tricks...
As for suspension, I was thinking adjustable struts w/ coilovers, testing with different spring rates, and going with usual strut tower bars, poly bushings, and some tighter sway bars with adjustable endlinks.
#125
mad scientist
Um, still no luck with the power supply. If anybody knows how to make a dual-polarity power supply off 12VDC car electrical system, please PM me so I can move forward.