No 2.3 will put out 360 without boost or nos unless I throw lots of money at it, duh. Its also 1.7 liters smaller than your engine whether you agree with it or not, and would have basically NO low end. So yeah, if I built it for a 10K rpm redline, got esslinger heads and a cam so wild it wouldnt idle lower than 2K, sure. But thats NOT the point... I DONT want **** power delivery and high cost. Id rather get a turbo and breach 310 whp relatively easily, with much better power delivery. BTW, spool from 3-3.5K with a biggish turbo is not difficult to achieve if you properly pick your turbo and do intake/exhaust/heads, but thats further on down the road. For now I'll be happy with 240 to the wheels basically spooling off idle while I plan out my other **** and work on the suspension and tires And in a 2700 lb car thats NOT a slouch. No, it wont pull on you, but Id get up to your acceleration long before 12 grand.

Thats my point in all of this. The amount of return with the money you put in. And uh yeah 12Gs can get you more than 310 at the wheels NA with a v8 EASILY buddy. Go find out how much a LS1 costs to get 360 hp out of... damn near nothing LOL. With virtually any other v8 its equally as academic. Thats part of why its so good! You dont need to throw **** at it and not have any expectation of what you'll get out of it or blow 12 grand. Maybe to you its not a lot of money to spend on an experiment, but it is to me. If I had 12g's it would go to my education, Im still 20 and very much not done yet.

Also, youre right - getting high N/A power out of a NSX is megabucks, but then again 80K for what a NSX delivers stock (inferior to a STOCK FD that has equal tires and undamaged vac lines/fuel filter/spark plugs) is equally illogical to me. If I happened to come into posession of a NSX Id sooner forge the internals and some forced induction, or sell it for 20 grand to someone and build a LSx FD!

Now, as far as comparing your FD to these other cars on the highway, I must say again that 310 whp is NOT a lot. The only reason your car is that fast with that kind of output is virtue of its light weight. Thats the chassis shining through and why Im interested in RX-7s, their great chassis. As far as a FC being inferior to a FC thats another 'duh' thing here, but I dont have a lot of money! Im going for bang for buck here. You could have gotten 310 whp with the stock twins easily... but I am glad youre happy with your car. I for one think Id be happy with a torquey, powerful 2700 lb car that is a good handler with DTSS elimination bushings, coilovers, and good tires.

Just curious though, how much does your car weigh again? How much does a Z06 weigh and just what year Z06 was it? And blown mustangs can go from mild to wild themselves. 12K in a blower and forged internals in a mustang would own you in a drag - but youre not out for a drag car anyway. You have a lightweight 310 whp car, which isnt slow, but my point was that for 12 grand 310 whp is very low. With the car the same weight as it is now a 310+ whp 13b would have a bigger powerband, and if it was a LSx, 302, or 2.3T the same could be said for well under 12 grand.

Thats the apples to apples thing here. Money vs return to the wheels in terms of power... not beating a 'stang with some undefined amount of boost or edging on a Z06 after spending TWELVE THOUSAND BUCKS by virtue of your chassis's light weight.

 

I see your point easily, but I just ask to see mine in light of all aspects. I think 18k car beating a 60k car is a good virtue. I also talked to the mustang after beating him, he was running 12lbs of boost from the vortec, said it ran 12.1 at the track, but that is hersay as well. I dont understand you building a 2.3, at all actually, a stock TII w/ stock turbo and ecu can pull the numbers you want, and still be plently reliable. Doing things cheap *** as possible always bit me in the ***, hopefully the used high milege FORD motor will last you through college without losing compression, and turbo being pushed to the max rpms, with worn out bushings gushing oil into the exhaust. This motor you have is quite old, and not many are going to be in there prime without a overhaul and new turbo. And if you go bigger new turbo $$$, bigger injectors $$ different standalone $$ fuel pump $$ cams $$ intercooler$$$ bigger radiator $$ ect ect ect. It all adds up. Maybe you have had horrible experiance with rotary's? If so I'm sorry. But I dont give up so easily and of all 13 rx-7's I have been put through hell, none have blown, maybe I am a expert, or just lucky as hell. I believe the 2.3 is cast iron block? If so its a chunk of weight in its own right, and no matter how you boost it, a larger n/a motor will have better all-around reliablity and power curves. I could argue all day why your setup is not ideal, but its your setup, and you like it. You said it yourself with a the V8 argument, yet you seem to argue against yourself. If the V8 is so cheap and sweet, why are you going 2.3 turbo?? With worse powerband than a stock 13B Turbo II? And a 13B with similar power output would loose in powerband vs. a N/a 3-rotor, I've driven both with same power levels, and a N/a 3-rotor is much more pure, fast revving, much much more down low torque than the 13B.

Oh yeah, the other questions. The corvette was a stock 04' red color. They weigh 2900lbs without driver. Mine was 2620, with some stuff in the car, and of course a roll cage. I never wanted more than 400rwhp with the wieght of the car, so why would I want more? Its perfectely balanced with the coilovers/weight/power. And 310rwhp was a poor dyno run, its easily 330 rwhp now, and the stock twins at that level will soon crack and self destruct, not to mention be WAY out of effeciency range pumping mega hot air into the motor, making for a very unstable 13b, waiting for a accident, even on 94 octane. Mine can be pounded on like a dog, run a 84 degrees C, and pump in 89 octane all day long, every day, day in day out, and never have to think twice. I hope a V8 can be driven the same way without blowing, I have talked to MANY v8 guys running fords, ls1, lt1 ect, and they have all blown rods or bent valves, ect ect. This dosent mean they know what they are doing either, but theres alof of evidence for me to believe they dont like to be beat on at the upper range of rpms. But to each his own, now lets keep this thread on something useful for others to read.

 

Ok, 18K vs 60K is good... but what 60K car? the porsche or the Z06? :P

But anyway, its not giving up on rotaries so much as simply not caring. Money in, performance out, I want to minimize the former and maximize the latter. And to this end, well, a turbo 2.3 is hard to beat. Why, you ask?

How much is a whole T-II? How much is a 13BT pullout? Im getting a roller for less than $200 and putting a 2.3 in there that I can get for a few hundred at most... with a turbo, tranny, computer, and all the bells and whistles and **** I need. You also just dont seem to get what I mean by having a bigger powerband. As far as radiators and IC's... uh, junkyards are great ways to find them, same for turbos.

2.3 Turbos make more torque than your engine does STOCK. If I want 310 to the wheels I can go get a damned junkyard turbo for a few hundred, open up my exhaust and intake and **** and there I go. And POWERBAND is how many rpms it makes most of its power. Turbo cars very easily get huge powerbands because they make so much midrange torque (unless you put on one thats too big) and the other thing is they dont NEED to rev high:



This dude maxed out his air meter and couldnt rev higher than that... he finally fixed that and got it up to like 5800 or so and is over 410 whp. Imagine if it went up to power peak and then until it dropped off. Hed have PLENTY of power, for a long time, yet even now its making TONS of power - 80 more ponies to the wheels and signifigantly more torque. But yeah, assuming 6500 or so for moderate revs so that power can flatten out for a while to give it a nice powerband (hell TORQUE hasnt peaked yet, ****!)

Now, I see youre looking at people blowing out a rod or bending a valve from high rpms. RPMs are a means to an end, not a goal to get "x # of rpms". Like I said, getting the same power you have, for longer, is possible at lower rpms. If you WANT to build for high rpms, then you obviously have to get new rods if the stock engines rods arent intended for it, and plenty arent - and the same for your valve springs! Different v8s are built for different ends. BTW - non properly built rotaries have high rpm issues themselves, with the stationary gear and apex seals/springs. Theyre not F1 engines out of the box themselves!

Now, if you wanna see a high revving v8, look at that SB2 that owned your *** for about a 3rd of the price (4K or so). But hey, not everyone wants high revs, some people are happy with looking at the variables that matter (power and weight) and getting them for less money with less revs.

Now, your car on the whole is a excellent performer, thats never been a point of contention. But you took the high-rollah N/A route and your power/dollar ratio is kind of **** becuase of it. If you got some turbos on that youd make TONS more power. My original point.... 310 whp with the delivery of a S2000 (flat, low torque thats revved high to gear it down for more torque at the wheels) is frankly unimpressive, and ridiculously not cost effective. And it would be crap unless it was in a 2600 lb chassis.

Maybe you just have expensive taste? lol.

 

LOL, I cant believe I am continuing on with this, but at any rate- That SB2 that owned my *** was NOT, NO WAY IN HELL 4k setup, your vision on costs are sooooo unrealisticly low it make me wonder if your car will ever run. Who's dyno is that? What mods were done? Was he using a junkyard turbo as well? DUDE get into the real world, I'm not a expert, but I too once tried to do a "junkyard" turbo setup, and 99% of the turbos in there are for a reason, they are JUNK man! If you think you can just stroll in there and find a gold mine, you'll be dissapointed, well at least in Ohio, maybe in Cali its different or in other states? Point is you arent proving much to me, when YOU are telling ME how I wasted money, yet YOU have nothing better even running yet?? Tinman is a very skilled motor builder, and I dont think you have the concept down on how to build something called reliable and fast (relative term, different to everyone). I have seen many try and fail to make the same type of project you are seeking, you gotta pay to play, and you'll maybe learn this the hard way as I did. If you cant afford to do it right, just dont do it at all. Now once YOUR car schools alot of Rx-7's, turbo II's, FD's, and mine, you'll gain something called respect. Until then, I hate to say it, but your bench racing man! So just like a good car build, add something good to my thread, or dont post at all. Thanks

 

Ok, when Im done I'll give you a receit and a dyno sheet. And also I guarantee if i spent 12K I could have something with more power than 310 whp.

BTW, the only reason your car is that fast with that amount of power is because it weighs 2650ish lbs. If I stripped out my FC, got slicks, and had 310 to the wheels (with much more torque and a bigger powerband) or hell, even 330 (which is REAL hard with a turbo ) I'd be right with ya. Hell, I just might do that, Im getting a roller, so why not?

****, I could put a 2.3 turbo in a PINTO, now what? LOL.

BTW, Im in NC and my friend who turned me into this powerplant was going to Junkyards in GA to get this **** and did it himself. If its really that bad here in NC with 2.3 parts and turbos as you think it might be, I'll just go to GA to get **** or ask him to mail it to me. Not every JY turbo is crap (some are stil attached to the engine of a crashed car), and plenty can be rebuilt - and plenty are inexpensive if you know where to buy them.

And yes, 330 whp for 12grand is a waste of money unless you really, really, really just wanted it to be a N/A 20b, in my opinion! Im in it for bang/buck, not worshipping a power plant or NA vs turbo or rotary vs piston.

 

That's what he's been trying to tell you. His intent had nothing to do with reaching a specific hp figure. This thread is about his custom fabrication to build a semi PP NA 3 rotor. Regardless how much it cost, it's a one of a kind set-up. That makes it worth it. Also don't under estimate the 20b's potential if he ever decided to turbo it. With the money he used to custom make the intake, he could have bought a single turbo and fabbed an IC and made a ton more hp and still be at around 12k.


Well your definitely on the wrong forum. Worshipping our power plant is something we do a lot of around here.

 

I know full and damn well what a 20B can make with forced induction, Im just amazed he chose to forego it! In my eyes a 20B = G.N. with more stock revability. In other words the potential to go out and bitchslap a few supras with effectively one more liter than they have, though Im not sure what would need beefing up first (stationary gear, e-shaft, etc) because I havent and likely wont ever mess with one. Too pricey for me.

But bang/buck is what attracted me to RX-7s in the first place - a good, light chassis for not that much dough. The FC got my attention because of the huge engine bay, more room, and less expense vs a FD.

And yeah, Im in the 20b forum because the car in this thread ran a v8 FC and I was curious about it. I dont have the money to even begin thinking of such an undertaking

BTW, before anyone ***** on a 2.3, I got a little dyno to share

 

I dont think anyones bagging on the 2.3. Ive messed with them and they make power but to make power and keep it reliable you are going to have to upgrade parts. You not going to push that horsepower for long on the stock stuff. Ive broken my share of rods. but anyway who are you to say what he should or shouldnt have done with his setup. I dont care if he spent 30000.00 on his setup as long as he is happy about. Im shure when your done with your car someones going to bag you about it as well. Theres always no it all A** holes who think they no it all. I say put up or shut up. His building a drift car not a drag car.

 

Green :]

 

Nihilanthic: go away. you argue about everything. Your engine is a piece of ****. Get over it. Your engine weighs MORE than Logan's 3 rotor. Get over it. Your engine will not last 200000 miles making 310 hp at the wheels. Get over it. And yes, both me and Logan have seen 200000 mile rotaries still making as much horsepower as they did the day they rolled off the showroom floor. Show me a 4 cylinder turbo or domestic v8 that does that!! I have a friend that had 200000 on his LT1, ran strong, but was not making near the power the 25000 mile LT1 my other friend has.

Go back to your junkyard *** torquecentral thread, you greasy little boy.

 

GTOrx7: Thank you for taking the time and money to push the rotary engine development further. It takes ***** to try out something new that could potentially fail. Obviously you have done a good job and things are NOT failing at all! Its great to see people actually do a project and make it work instead of talking out of their *** and bench racing everything. I look forward to hearing about how your P-ports work in the future.

Nihilanthic: No one cares about your bench racing. No one cares about your V8 testimonials. This isnt a V8 thread. You are just like everyone else of your "type". Talk all day long, but in the end their actually cars are crap. I realized this over the last 4 years of going to sevenstock. People show up that talk crap all day long on the internet about how great their car is, but when i finally see it in person, its a piece of ****. Hacked together with junkyard parts that dont work right. Get over the fact that no one cares about your V8 dyno charts or your supposed car knowledge. Like the previous poster said, go back to torquecenteral where people might care...

 

No problem! Your welcome, and I'm glad to have so much support on a club that is open minded enough to care. BTW, to Nihilanthic, I dont think I ever have said my car was fast ( I may need to re-read my own threads) but its funny you call it fast, hmmm a little compliment was in there somewhere? But anyway, after toying with cars, I have came to realize that its not about how HUGE amount of power you have. So I ask everyone this, and this is the question that will answer what you REALLY want in a car---- When did you have the most fun EVER in a car you owned?? I have asked toyota supra guys with 1000hp this same question, and you know what they say? They dont talk much about the supra, they talk about a old 80's civic hatch, or a 1st gen rx-7 ect ect. I asked myself this same question, and after owning and building various rx-7s, I realized I was the most happy with a 12a w/ dellorto intake and headers. Why? It was fun as hell!! You could do standstill burnouts, smoke alot of cars, and beat on it everyday!! So this INSPIRED me greatly, make a bigger version of that!!! And the 20B on these pages is what I got (stage one, two and three are coming soon). Its a PURE joy driving this car, and everyone (very close friends only) that drive it LOVE it. Its just that magic cord that strikes home when you make something "just right". Not mega horsepower, and unreliable non-streetable monster, it takes away the FUN of pure driving statisfaction!! Its about going back to the roots of EXCITING car building, remember those days? This type of thinking is how you evolve into a mature car builder/ racer, talk to any guy that is 50 years old with a porshe, and you'll understand where they come from, and maybe in a few years, you'll understand too.

 

wow cool thread, your motor seems awesome, but hurry up and hook up the PP already. by the way, since you are into drifting, were you at JGTC/D1 last year? does your motor really sound like a PP 3rotor? the aspira drink RX7 sounded sooooo awesome, and it in itself was enough to make me want to junk my 2 rotor. it really did sound just like an F1 car and was by far the coolest sounding car out there.

i tried using the vid links, but my computer won't open them

Nihilanthic,
i don't think this is the place to argue about why v-8s are a better cheaper alternative, it was his money, and you should just respect and give him props for doing something different. i'm sure you could have saved even more money and had a faster car had you just bought a mustang or camaro in the first place. but you chose not to, just as he did.

 

Nihilanthic, you are the essence of bench racing. Your posts show your obvious knowledge deficit. Are you really so thick-headed that you cannot understand why he built this car the way he did? It doesn't matter if YOU like it a different way, he wanted his car this way. Not to mention the power of his setup hasn't even been fully realized yet.

You're like one of those kids who cares about big numbers and completely misses the area under the curve. You know what? Sure you could swap in a 2JZ and make 900 whp, but that car is going to be a turd to drive on the street. Added weight, higher COG, and an 8k powerband. Only a benchracer would want that.

No, what you can expect is major flamage when you start tossing around numbers with an engine you've obviously never had any personal experience with.

That's why he used a 20b and not a non-turbo 2.3. It's not "**** power delivery," it's area under the curve.

Please, oh please, enlighten me as to what a "biggish" turbo for a 2.3L 4-cylinder consists of. Compressor wheel and housing, and turbine wheel and housing will do fine, along with the A/R. Would you like me to correct your theory regarding head porting increasing spool?

The NSX engine has titanium rods. Now, you're just going to throw those out and get new ones, right? Because they're stock, so they must suck. And I'm sure if you had an NSX to drive, you'd have a hard time giving it up. The NSX is more than the sum of it's parts.

No, I already know. It's because you can't afford to build your own customized car. You have to find the cheapest part for every piece of the puzzle, and you don't give a damn about the car's character. That's fine, but a lot of us do care about that and do have the money to build nice cars.

Okay, now you're contradicting yourself. First you're all about peak horsepower, and now you're talking about more power at lower rpms. Sorry, but if you look at ANY professional drag car, they all turn at least 8000 rpm. It's easier to take a small displacement motor, throw tons of boost at it, and rev it high than it is to increase the displacement and make the power lower.

No ****, Sherlock. I bet if you had 12k you could make way more horsepower than that with a lot of different engines. But obviously you don't. Of course, you probably didn't think about required drivetrain modifications that might be necessary, or maybe some mods that will help the car's speed in turns, and not just a straight line.

Yeah, we established that rotaries were out of your price line a loooong time ago. I guess I understand your simpleton idea, 3 rotors = 6 pistons, 4.0L is almost the size of a GN engine, so they must be the same! Whatever. You can make whatever stupid comparisons you want.

A '78 Malibu has a huge engine bay, more room, and lower cost than an FD.

And there it is! Wow, I hadn't even read that before writing the rest of this post.

And your point is... I mean, I could give you a 600whp dyno sheet of a 2.0L. Whoopity-doo. I know that's not your dyno sheet, and that's the second one you've posted. Are you trying to confirm your status as a wanna-be?

 

I WISH I WAS THERE!!! That would be a wet dream come true! From what I can tell, mine sounds just as good as the race track 3-rotors, just not 10,500 good, only 8,500 rpm good. The sound of a 3-rotor is addicting as hell!!! Everytime I drive it, I gotta take it all the way to redline once, even if I'm stuck in traffic! I will try and maybe post some more sound files so you can hear it, or just stop by my house, hahaha. Soon it will be altered and running 10k w/ semi p-ports, yet idle at 1k making good power at 2k for daily driving (hint hint; Nihilanthic) I really do need to get the manifold done, but damn drifitng sessions are pricey!! Not to mention the gas! And work is slower than usual. I hate to say soon, but it will be soon!

 

sweet! thanks, can't wait to hear it! keep us updated on when you get the PP opened up, and how much more power you make.

btw i was at a drift session yesterday, (just as a spectator) there was a kid with a miata who was really good, only 17 too, if i only had a crappy car, and wasn't worried about busting stuff. haha,

harrison

 

Nihilanthic, hows it feel to be picked apart piece by piece over on our side?? That's the way you guys were treating GTORX7 over on torquecentral, but at least he respected our differences and listens to intelligent discussion rather than dismissing it like a "know it all kid." And I'm not even going to start the discussion again about a 20b being 4 liters.... god, get over yourself and move on with your life. Please, just call it 10 liters for all we care. I'm impressed this is the only argument YOU have against a rotary's fallbacks.

Hmm... I think I'll play the game you like to play, you know, the one where I tell YOU what YOU did wrong and what YOU should do, because I SAID SO!! So here it is:

Nihilanthic, with the amount of money and time you spent getting a 2.3 to fit in your engine bay, and getting a transmission to fit bolt in, and a custom driveshaft made, you could have bought a J-spec S5 engine and had 300hp 300 ft-lb torque with stock turbo, stock injectors, just a fuel cut defensor. Or, you could be smarter, and sell all the stuff off it (tranny, harness, turbo, manifold, etc) if you own a t2, and that would pay for the motor (I just did it), and you could take THAT money (1700) and buy a bigger turbo (1000), bigger injectors (150), exhaust (250 for aluminized 3" pipe and welding yourseld), manifold (150), clutch (300), intercooler (200), and a haltech (1200), and have a 500 hp car that would womp the **** out of almost anything on the street. Oh yeah, and it wouldn't weigh but 2750 with a/c, full interior, etc etc. I think to get that with a 2.3 you have to put forged internals in it.... big big bucks.

Let me remind you, before you pull your v8 makes anything go fast card, your engine weighs more, and to drop an LT1 in there (600 + lbs) or LS1 (490 lbs), you need MORE power to go as fast... 400hp fd's walk all over 600 hp turbo mustangs (Fox body, lightest one if im not mistaken). Just ask GTORX7, he builds and drives them on a daily basis.

Please, realize that not everyone's like you. If he wanted pure horsepower, he wouldve kept the 20b rotors (9:1) instead of the NA rotors (9.7:1), not dynamically balanced it, not bought the individual throttle bodies, not spent so much on the custom intake and exhaust and PP's, and just kept the stock intake and put a huge turbo on it to have WELL over 500 hp. Like he told me himself, it would've been MUCH cheaper to go turbo. He wanted a DRIFT car, not a numbers car. He wanted a NA drift car, because throttle response is so much better. And whats better yet, his car retains a 50/50 weight balance with him in it, so it grips like no other. And it's NA, so it'll last him 200,000 miles!!! There's more to his setup than power; in fact, power was like 5th or 6th on his list, behind things like WEIGHT, front/rear balance, throttle response, reliability, sound (NA sound so damn good!), and a plethera of other technical things he achieved.

If all you want is your big numbers and hot shot burnouts, go back over to v8 land and shut the **** up.

 

GtoRx7- I've been wanting to do something like this for year's. Thanks for living out my dreams.
Nihilantic- good luck with your swap, I've always liked the potential of the 2.3

I don't see why all the fighting is for, let everybody do what they want with their money. We all have different goals when it comes to building these cars. As long as you have fun with the car, thats really all that matters to me.

 

Yes you are right about that, but giving out negative comments, and boasting about a car that doesnt exist yet (meaning running) is bench racing.
And you better look up V8 weight charts, If a Ls-1 all-aluminum, plastic intake weighs 470 ish, how would a CAST iron block, aluminum intake NOT weigh 130 more???

P.S dont bad talk drifting simply because you dont understand how to do it.

And lastly, once your car is done, it will still be a Beat up FC, w/ 4 banger Ford, which will sound MUCH like the ricer honda's and drifters at your high school, just not as good. Your preaching to the wrong crowd, thanks have a nice day in the junk yard.

 

well, that and hte heads are prone to warp....overheating issues.....not to mention that awesome 8v design....but yeah "rod bolts"....

[quote]3. Working on a 2.3 and getting turbos is NOT that expensive. I told 6K is a good estimate for 400 whp from a rotary and I got "LMAO, where do I sign up?". If you know where to source your damn turbos you dont need to spend megabucks to get them. Theyre using holset turbos off turbo diesels that not only spool really good but support insane flow and rather high pressure ratios... which I really dont see a lot of with the rotaries. I've yet to see 30 psi on this forum. They do run into boost creep issues, but porting the WG or going to an external one resolves that issue fairly easily.[quote]


why dont you just go smallblock? same crappy iron block, but without the extra wieght of all your turbo stuff, no lag and unlike the 2.3 you CAN find parts WHEN it breaks.

sounds like youve been reading selective threads on the internet instead of having 1st hand experience.


if by finishing 8th in the points in a far inferior car while having a total fun time doing it , and using a different platform than everyone else (similar to a 2.3 turbo swap, except mine doesnt blow up and fry cylinder heads left and right) you mean rediculous thanks for the comments. you look pretty rediculous bastardizing an rx7 with a crappy motor then posting about it here.

if your gonna take out the rotary and come here talking noise, at least get a 1/2 way decent engine....not some failed ford turbo engine that is impossible to find parts for since all the motors have been destroyed for the most part if they arent in a almost running vehicle. and dont post links to peoples site if your tryign to make fun of them.



mike peters
driver
bubbadrift.com

 

DAMN!! Now that was a bitchslap!! Mike I just watched your drift video, you are one haul'n fast ****!! looked good !

 

I think my thread should be re-named this - "Nihilanthic gets bent over and stuck up the butt (by everyone, even new people) and Gtorx7's 3-rotor is running, which is 100% more than Nihilanthic's."

Yeah I like that one.........all in favor??

 

what is this 2.3 ford engine??
GtoRx7 did an awesome job on his car. Can't wait to see it in person!

 

Are you coming near by for a event? I will gladly give most a ride around the block, or freeway, or track, or sidewalk....

 

Ok this flamefest is completely out of hand right now.

FIRST post and you really expect me to believe you're that guy? yeeah.

Tell ya what, I'll post to the thread with numbers, quartermile times, and a tally of expendatures, and then it wont just be bitching.

Whoever the troll is, though, good job!

P.S. The reason I dont like drifting is its really subjective and some biased judge lays down the scores, and the stuff I HAVE, infact, seen is flashy-flashy crap with giant wings and kanji stickers. Not exactly my preference in motorsports.