well I was also going to ask not trying to sound stupid but Im not a full motor head yet. but basically you took out the turbos, added S5 na rotors and put those in, gave it a street port and peripheral port on the housing (wich are going to be actuated on demand?) a custom air box custom mounts. I mean is that all you needed to do to turn a turbo motor to na? and are you going to run higher octane gas to see what horse power you get or not..

JD

 

Jamesdean: yeah, pretty much a no-brainer, huh?

BlueTII: I think I understand what you're saying about the scavenge effect in a rotary, but to help me understand it better, could you try to explain it in a different manner, specifically about how the vacuum effect operated direction-wise on the secondary ports? Also, would a reed-type valve or similar be a good choice in a semi-pport engine to help eliminate backpressure into the intake runners from the rotor passing?

 

You have most of it right, I did a few more things internally, but that is , most of it. I did a full custom intake manifold, custom throttle bodies also, custom fuel rail. OF course a custom header and exhaust. Yes I will make a second manifold, with acutators that will be Computer controlled by the stand-alone to open at a certain rpm that proves to have the most power. As far as octane, there is a big mis-understanding with it. The higher octane burns slower, alowing higher detonation resistance. So in a N/a motor lower octane will always provide more power, up to the point it detonates. My motor detonates with 87 octane at very high speed/ high rpms, so 89 is good for the most power. 93 octane "should" have less power, but I may try experimenting with it.

 

What seals are you running in the engine now?

 

Stock 2-piece mazda seals

 

This is the neatest project ive seen on this board. Granted i love turbos, but the fact that someone is finally doing the semi-p port (on a 20B no less!) is just plain cool! I love the creativity and great pictures you are sharing! Keep up the good work!

 

wow, thats pretty nice. I dont think I've ever seen a 3 rotor 3rd gen thats not on boost let alone TBI for fuel.....Good job

 

dyno numbers?

 

How much would you charge to do this N/A setup on an FB??? Seriously..........your set-up is amazing!!!

 

you'd have to mow a lot of lawns, hombre.

jklolomgwtfbbq. how are these wheels workin out?

 

^^ lol asshat............wheels are workin out great!!!

 

can you take some pics from the under the car of the front side near the steering rack?

 

if you're serious about it, i know he'll do it for you. just a matter of getting the car to columbus ohio and paying like, 20k or so total for parts & labor (just a guess).

 

Its hard to give hard number for you, I would need to know if you are wanting to keep the stock turbo's, what standalone, if you want it to be N/A full blown n/a that is like mine, ect ect ect. More details the better. To give you a "rough" est. I would say 17k-18k. including the labor, and motor start to finish.

 

I added up , for the powertrain. And with all of it it came to about $12,235 bucks. Of course I saved on all the labor, but not on the headaches haha.
Here was the breakdown for all interested-

Blown 3-rotor long block - $2500 (super deal!!)
custom intake flange machined-$130
custom welded intake service $100
two intake manifolds - $380
throttle bodies- $1200
rebuild 6 injectors R/C service - $180
Stainless piping for full exhaust $800
three borla mufflers $ 600
machined water outlet $ 60
1/8 inch steel for motor mounts $35
Polyurethe stock for motor mounts $100
Power steering machining and welding $230
Machinining intake flat after welding, and phenolic adapter $400
Microtech Lt-12s - $1200
6 bosch coils $ 300
Two sets of NGK wires $55
spark plugs (6) $55
1/16 alumium sheet for fabing air box $100
Air filter K+N $55
3 89-91 rotors N/A - $300
3 race rotor bearings $350
dynamic balance rotating assembly $500
apex seals $ 600
gaskets, o-rings, springs ect $1300
machining three housings for p-port $600 (deal for me one time only)
fuel rail stock $60
machining fuel rail- $35
bolts/nuts/ ect $100
Koyo radiator $350
Under drive pulley kit $110
header wrap $100
SOLD turbo rotors $-200
SOLD twin turbos $-250
SOLD intake manifold $-200

Grand total $12,235.00

 

No offence here but... for 12K, do you think you got what you paid for?

 

Trust me I don't think he has complained on bit.

 

To each his own. Not everyone builds a car specifically based on hp figures. Some of us like to do things a little different.

 

Well, I guess thats so, but I dont have 12K lying around just so I can make a big deal about not using pistons

Id rather get that much power or more for far less and spend the rest on tires and the suspension.

 

You gotta look at the bigger pic than power vs. money. If I was building a car fast as I can for a little money, yeah I would be a huge failure. I KNOW that a 13B turbo is waaaayyyy cheaper for alot more horsepower. You dont see my perpective, I have owned 13 Rx-7's, and four were turbocharged. I needed a change, a CHALLENGE, and a three rotor n/a was different, not easy to get HUGE power out of, and not easy to convert to n/a, more reponsive, low octane, ect ect.

Now, personally what is your deal? How much was put into your car? All the nuts and bolts, motor and subframe, computers ect.? Whatever you tell me I'm sure someone could argue you spent too much money on it, and that they could do the same with less. Your the first to jump to calling me out, but for a full custom job I think it is cheap. Is your setup all stock stuff? Stock v8, stock computer, store bought headers, someone elses subframe, stock intake, ect? Its not so easy for me, I cant buy off the shelf parts. And I love rotaries, and will always love them. Sorry I dont share your passion for a V8 piston engine. Maybe theres a place called torque central for you and others to share a passion with.

 

Actually, I'm putting in a ford 2.3 turbo because its even cheaper yet still has tons of potential, and the out of the box performance is pretty good.. 190/220 to the wheels and some years had 205/240. Maxed out I can expect about 240 whp on the IHI turbo, the T3 I forgot - and when I switch turbos the sky is basically the limit.

And yeah, if the deal w/ grannys doenst come through to do mounts Id do it myself, but Im not into this for the challenge of spending 12 grand to get about 360 horsepower. I really dont get the joy of spending a lot of money and effort with a long downtime... isnt the challenge and competition supposed to be with actually competing and powering out of a turn with a big grin on your face?

Basically, Id rather challenge my tires and my skill in driving than my patience, bank account, and the technical quirks and limitations of my chosen powerplant. The FC is an extremely capable chassis thats neither expensive nor cursed with any expensive to fix achilles heel, and has a big engine bay. Virtually every domestic v8 and the 2.3 turbo is a cheap, capable, platform without any such weakness either. The 2.3 DOES have shitty stock rodbolts, but a simple replacement of them will fix that, and its not like it needs to rev to make insane power anyway. Besides, whats more difficult, dropping your oil pan and getting out a torque wrench or disassembling the whole engine to replace an apex seal you blew out because you knocked?

I wouldn't be making a point of this if it wasnt TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS to do what you did and get what you got! Part of my point is that basically anyone could build a capable v8 rx7 to EXTREME levels of performance without spending a lot of cash or needing welders and tools most people dont have to do it themself. Someone built a v8 rx-7 that kicked some MAJOR *** in Grass roots motorsports for below $2005 dollars. The one Im building could easily be cheaper than THAT if I can find cheap rims and tires to finish it off, if I was happy with a maxed out IHI... which would be MORE than sufficient to scoot around and humiliate most cars, running a low 13 at FAR less than the motors STREETABLE potential, letlone a megabucks 12 thousand dollar build like you did.

So, again, why do you WANT to challenge your income and fabrication? Why not go ahead and get to the drifting? My passion is for performance and the joy of driving the vehicle, not jumping through hoops like that. 12G's and tons of effort later and you got... 310 whp (I'll be fair, I AM interested in the PP dyno results when you open them up) whereas someone who is just smart enough to not pop his oil cap and **** in his valve cover could get that much with a v8 for a fraction of the cost... even if he used a new crate engine!

What am I missing?

 

Please...
Anyone who knows about the GRM yearly challenge knows that this statement is pure bunk.
It's a very poor example to use in terms of realistically pricing out a project.


-Ted

 

Define realistically? Even his N/A 20b had deals and 'negative cost' from selling stuff he didnt end up using! Though to be true I dont exactly have an accounting book with what the GRM build spent, do you happen to have that information?

Either way, a 302 with the grannys mounts would be extremely inexpensive and put down more power (and better delivery) for a FRACTION of that 12 grand build. Same for a turbo 2.3! And yeah, a turbo 13b would probably be a much more cost effective and easier to drive option actually having midrange torque and a powerband thats not so peaky, the knock sensitivity aside.

And yeah, lets say you did have a 12 grand budget for a v8 swap. Do I really need to enumerate on just what you can do with that, deals or not? Again, I dont see the attraction of spending lots of time, effort, and money and getting such a poor return relative to that expendature. 12Gs for 360 hp with the delivery of a S2K is bluntly ridiculous.

 

I think maybe you are missing the fact a high output n/a setup costs alot of money. period. If you were to build a NSX with throttle bodies, full stainless exhaust, ported heads, higher compression ect. it would be more money than mine, so is that project dumb too? Just because its pricey to get n/a power out of small motors dosent mean you just throw away the motor and drop in a cheap american powertrain. No offense to you, but how many people will be impressed by a high horsepower v8 rx-7? or a v8 NSX? Not many, its to predictable. I dont think knocking is a issue for me, and changing apex seals wont be a concern at all. Your 2.3 turbo will have much less torque before boost hits than mine ever will. I can punch it at any rpm and it instantly will shove back and start roasting the tires in first or second gear. I have spent $18,000 grand total in the whole car, including the car, with full race suspension, bushings and cage, and it will nearly hang with a $120,000 dollar twin turbo Porshe, yet I dont have any turbos. When I edge out a Z06 and the owner asks how much boost your running, and you say "0" , or when you spank a vortech supercharged Mustang on the highway, and he asks "how many bottles of nos are you using?" and you tell him its all-motor, yeah, I have to admit it was money well spent!! And aparently you need more than a few pounds of boost just to hang with me, and even then, the FC is far from the performance of this FD. Sorry to compare like that, but you keep saying 12k, 12k ,12k, I just saying its not easy to do what we n/a guys do, so dont knock the **** out of it. And if a junkyard $2005 dollar swap is your thing great, I hope it gets you to work every day. Downtime? Mine was down for 7 months start to finish. How long has yours been down? I personally love building cars, its almost half the fun. And maybe actually ride in my car or one like it before talking about my powerband, and how I spent too much money.
So get back with me when your 2.3 is putting out 360+ without boost or nos, for less money, including the price of the entire swap.

 

12k is cheap! i did my 20b swap for a little less, and i didnt even open up the engine. ive been thinking about a number of fun projects, but its hard to spend less than 10k, if you're doing it right.

the neat thing is gtorx7 spent 12k and he's happy with the car, happy with the car and that can be tricky!