thetech

iTrader: (1)

When I first bought this motor it was checked out by Atkins rotary and had solid compression (100+) on all rotors.

I finally got around to trying to start the beast, and after some idiocy on my part I managed to get the thing fired up, but only running on 2 rotors. After checking with a regular compression tester I have no compression at all on any of face of the middle rotor. It's possible that it's flooded as part of the idiocy I mentioned earlier was injecting about 4x as much fuel as it should have been before I figured it out.

Any ideas on how this could be given that the compression 6 months prior was fine? I have not been using any oils or anything to store the engine.

Any advice before I have to tear this thing out and get it rebuilt?

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

Bet its flooded, if you can get it running, just keep it running and try to lean it out a bit, the rotor will eventualy ceatch,

ive had this problem on my 2rotor when my cas was wayyy off, wicked flooded, thought i blew it, changed the plugs got it running on the 1 rotor, eventualy the 2nd one caught

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Haha thanks, I guess I'll have to push it out into the street or something. My neighbors will massacre me if I flood the entire building with smoke

I might remove the plugs and crank it and throw in some ATF as well.

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

more then likely one of the seals is stuck from sitting... usually a seal will work its way loose after it has run for a while... you can put a little ATF in there, just make sure when you fire that bad boy up ... it is when everyone is at work

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Thanks

One question - after I deflood it and pour some ATF in, should I be able to see compression on a compression gauge?

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

if it was just flooded i dont see why not

id try cranking with fuel injectors disabled to try to clear it rather than atf, from what understand, doing so will most definetly foul your plugs

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Well, I took out all the plugs and crank it for 25-30 seconds. Then I put some ATF into the middle rotor, but still shows no compression (well only about 10psi).

I need to tow this thing into the middle of nowhere and run it for a while I guess!

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

I thought you said it started, just ran like crap? Fire it up and drive it gingerly, get some heat into it

thetech

iTrader: (1)

It starts, but clearly doesn't sound right (only running on 2 rotors). It's a fully blown racecar, so there's not really any chance of me driving it around (+ i have a problem with the throttle cable).

I guess I need to let it run for a few minutes but won't be able to do that until I move it from my garage!

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

oh, you have that widebody blue fc right? understandable bout the driving around. yes id try the running it

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Yea it's the blue FC. I'll let you know how it works out, I'm going to try and run it for a few mins tonight on the street!

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

why don't you put some Seafoam in it (all 3, not just the chamber acting up) and turn it by hand - let is sit overnight and then fire it. new plugs will probably be appropriate soon after that. out of curiosity, what type of plugs are you using?

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to try it if I still have no luck.

I'm using BUR7EQP in the leading and BUR9EQP in the trailing.

Japan2LA

iTrader: (256)

No compression could mean stuck or broken apex seals on atleast 2 tips of the rotor..

Whats the history on that motor?

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Unknown history. It's a late model, #D096.

What's bizarre is that when Atkins checked the compression on June 6th 2007 it came back as:

Front: 105, 109, 104psi
Middle: 105, 108, 118psi
Rear: 108, 102, 108psi

I didn't check the compression myself prior to trying to start it, then I may well have flooded it while trying to start. It was only after trying to start it for a while that I decided to check the compression.

I'm going to let it sit for a day with the ATF then try and let it run for 5-10 minutes and see if it 'unsticks'.

spanner

iTrader: (2)

You can probably try spraying in some WD40 , and let it sit overnite. Next day, turn it a bit , back & forth, maybe if the turbos are off and you can peep into the exhaust ports, and spray the WD40 onto the Apex seals and press them in a bit. Use new plugs and try to let the motor come up to operating temp. if possible.
Just my two cents....

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys for all the tips. My challenge right now is how to let the car run for 5 minutes without turning my parking garage into a smoke chamber!

RETed

Personally, I don't trust Atkins myself, and I will never order anything from them.

I am highly suspect of that "118" #.
Is that a typo?
Compression #'s are usually 5% of each other on the same rotor.
That 118 # is significantly higher than any of the other faces from that same motor.

Bad thing is that you cannot confirm the condition of the insides without tearing everything down.
On top of the fact that this is a 20B with the center rotor "bad", so you can't do a "half stack" tear-down.


-Ted

Japan2LA

iTrader: (256)

Agreed... the 118 is very suspect.... Call it irony..... the housing in question is the housing that previously tested the highest...how is that possible?

t-von

iTrader: (8)

You know opening up the engine to clean out all the carbon isn't that expensive or hard to do. If you know what your doing, you can put together an aftermarket gasket kit for less than $150.00. Putting all the seals back in their original place isn't rocket science.

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

I honestly believe I came across that exact engine in South San Francisco at Japan Parts Wholesalers. However, all I can honestly remember is that it was an early numbered "D" code engine.
I went to comp check it in it's front clip to verify for a friend interested. The middle rotor was blown but the engine spun fine. We decided against it and a short time later I called to see if they still had it and would drop the price. They told me it had been sold and when I inquired to whom, I figured out it was Atkins.

Hope I'm wrong.

On another note, I don't trust Atkins either. When I worked at Russell we maintained 20+ Star Mazdas and Atkins used to supply the engines. That is until they sent us a half 4-port and half 6-port engine to replace (one of) the bad engine(s) they had previously supplied us with.
Honestly, how could you even do this, let alone ship it out?

thetech

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys, I also had a bad experience with Atkins many years ago on an old FD, so not too surprising if the thing is toast. I agree the middle rotor being 'high' and then mysteriously having no compression is definitely a weird sign.

I've already decided to rebuild/port it next week, hopefully there isn't too much internal damage and I can get away fairly cheaply!

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

wow, that truly sucks! i really hope things work out for the best, but at least you don't appear to sound as defeated as i would if i were in your shoes. definitely keep us updated on the status.

thetech

iTrader: (1)

I try and expect the worst when I'm building cars

I also just wanted to clarify - the guy who I bought this from, mergatroyd on this forum, is a very standup guy and I don't question his integrity in this matter for a second. I believe that he bought the motor from Atkins originally, then when I was buying the engine from him I asked him for a compression test, and he took it to Atkins to get a compression test done.

Now whether Atkins then realized that it was an engine they had sold the guy and gave him a phony compression test result is up for debate, but it's definitely an interesting possibility...