Brian Deane

hi guys so i was browsing the forums looking at alternatives for water jacket seals since im a broke guy right now the rx7 is killing my wallet lol but anyways a couple guys were saying they use this Viton DIY o ring like material that you can cut yourself and use? im having trouble finding it. theres a quote below of what he said. where do you find these materials

"Now I do 2.4mm inner Viton, 2.0mm outer generic O-ring material."

Brian Deane

okay guys i found it. that site has it $1.68 per foot and the material description is

Heat resistance: Up to 400°F (204°C)
Chemical Resistance:

Mineral oil and grease, low swelling in ASTM oil No. 1, and IRM 902 and IRM 903 oils
Non-flammable hydraulic fuels in the group HFD
Silicone oil and grease
Mineral and vegetable oil and grease
Aliphatic hydrocarbons (fuel, butane, propane, natural gas)
Aromatic hydrocarbons (benzene, toluene)
Chlorinated hydrocarbons (trichlorethylene and carbon tetrachloride)
Chlorine, Wet
Fuels, also fuels with methanol content
Diesel Fuel
Gasoline
High vacuum
Very good ozone, weather and aging resistance.

so just get 2.4mm(which is 2.36mm on site) for the inner seal and 2.0mm for the outer seal and cut perfect lengths and enjoy! people said they used to for a few years now on fresh rebuilds with no coolant loss or over heating problems


https://www.globaloring.com
http://www.globaloring.com/Search/124/c/

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

I wouldn't use anything that is not continues. My fear would be that it would shrink or create a gap at the cut edge and create a leak.

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

"Do it cheap, and you'll do it again."

Brian Deane

pineapple racing uses what i posted and re sells them in a kit for the water jackets for a lot more than buying just the material normally. just saying

ray green

iTrader: (14)

Thanks for the information Brian, that's interesting.

After you cut to length, how are the two ends sealed to create an o ring?

I've got the same concern KC has, but if this can be done reliably, as some of these aftermarket suppliers appear to be doing for what must be a hefty profit, you might be on to a real money saver.

heynoman

iTrader: (5)

I've heard good things and bad things about Pineapple Racing water jacket seals but mostly bad things about how they come apart at the ends and require to be re glued. I've also heard of issues of water seeping in after failure . Seems like you always hear more complaints about products then success stories. But to be fair OEM seals fail too. Me personally I will not touch them I actually have a set of viton seals someone made lying around that came with a parts engine I purchased.brian if you want them you can have them. I'm sure they will work for how long I couldn't tell you. I would say most of the companies that sell them couldn't tell you exactly how long they will last either. If they know they are reusable more then likely it's because the they had to reopen a engine shortly after for one reason or another. For short term use I really can't see why not use them especially if you know you will be reopening the engine after a few thousand miles. For long term I would just stay away and stick with oem. Ray green These seal are held together at the end with cyanoacrylate (super glue.)

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

Do it right or do it twice. Cheapest reliable alternative would be a full rotary aviation o-ring kit. It would be wise to replace everything listed in this link anyways.

O-Ring Kits - Rotary Aviation<br />.com

EDIT: those are for a 13B so not positive about 12a's

ray green

iTrader: (14)

Superglue? You've got to be kidding. There is no way that joint will have any strength.

If after gluing you stretch the o ring and it breaks at the joint, it's no good.

The ends need to be fused, as strong as or stronger than the o ring material itself.

I've got some used OEM o rings, I'm going to dig them out and give them the pop test, see if they break at the joint.

peejay

Actually, superglue is the method for making O-rings out of cord.

Personally, I don't bother. I just put the ends up on top under a tension bolt, no gluing. Never had a coolant leak. I make it slightly overlong and the two ends butt together.

I never had an issue there when I used to use 18 gauge electrical wire, either. Even when leaving a gap as much as 1/2" between the two ends. The main problem I'd have would be burning the insulation on a cold start in the wintertime since it wasn't pliable enough. Pull the engine apart and the insulation in the quadrant under the spark plugs would be yellow (not orange) and squiggly like heat-warped railroad tracks, even if it wasn't blowing combustion gases in the coolant. Which is why I now use the viton cord.

I've only ever bought enough for two engines, because that's all I ever needed. Extremely clean prep, 2.4mm inside and 2.0mm outside, and Right Stuff urethane sealant because everything I see nowadays is horribly pitted and corroded. Welcome to 30 years after the last RX-7 was produced.

heynoman

iTrader: (5)

I've actually tested on a oem outer seal and found that after pulling past the limit of the seal it actually snapped at a different spot and the glue held great. One thing that I did notice is that where ever the glue made contact with the viton would get very brittle. I think one of the main issues the companies where having with the seams coming apart was just not enough glue. There is also a vulcanizing process that can be done though that will require special equipment.

freddyrx3

iTrader: (14)

Contact Carlos @ Fastec in Florida. Best low-budget kits out there

Brian Deane

that method is perfect it seems like i cant think of a reason why it wouldnt work if everything was perfectly cleaned and lined up and maybe with a tad bit of high temp RTV silicone. you get get the option on the sizes you can buy and they all match up with the oem sizes

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

What is sooooo pricy about the fel pro $140 gasket set?!?!?!? Comes with every thing you need and stuff you don't.

Brian Deane

well for me $140 + $200 apex seals IF i dont need springs is gonna be $340..for me thats alot im only 21 and i just moved to north carolina and i got no job or anything as of now

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

Then by all means, go the cheap route. Do you have a backup plan when the next thing breaks?

peejay

It's wasteful, for me anyway, since I throw most of it out. All I'd use would be the coolant seals and dowel O-rings. I make my own intake manifold gaskets, use Right Stuff for oil pan gaskets, and I have had so many problems with exhaust manifold gaskets burning that I use orange high-temp silicone for that. (Or, more frequently, Right Stuff, which also works well) I use RX-8 front cover gaskets, which are a massive upgrade over the paper gasket and O ring arrangement. Or silicone and O ring.

One year I rebuilt five times...

So $40 to McMaster-Carr for O-ring material, $20 for Right Stuff, and $3-4 at Harbor Freight for the other O-rings, and I have an engine set... RX-8 gasket is indefinitely reuseable.

Brian Deane

thanks for the info i got a harbor freight right next to me

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

You say that like it's a GOOD thing...

Of course, "reliable" for a race motor means it's lasts out the season, right?

I try to aim for ten-year builds. Current batting average is 0.500.

peejay

It turned out that I was having air filtration issues. Very expensive and frustrating lesson. Fortunately, educations like that tend to be the ones that you never forget.

Current engine was built in mid-2012. That was roughly 50k ago. It's getting weak and elderly, but coolant sealing isn't an issue. Funny thing is, rear rotor compression got weak and lumpy since late 2012 but it hasn't really failed either. I think it has a cracked side seal or something. Apex seals are still .002 to the grooves (measured through the exhaust ports) and I tend to wear rotors out first. Chrome flaking is definitely happening to a good degree but that doesn't explain why one face is lower than the other two.

I have a line on a parts 12A, another GSL-SE core engine, and another FC engine, so I may just duplicate the current engine rather than rebuilding it. The formula I ended up with seems to work well