warwickben

iTrader: (1)

So I know this probably been asked befor but I want to get a complet list of what I'll need and some questions I'm confused about with interchangeability of parts.

I plan to start getting parts to build a 12a based 4 rotor motor. I know there's a huge cost involed and I plan to buy parts here and there and the buddy I own a car with is pitching in.

I know I need I have a running 12a in my 1980 rx7 with great compression. I know I'll have to buy at least one more good motor and a 3rd middle plate plus two or 3 stationary gears to be mod.

What what I'm confused is what year 12a motor parts and 13b parts I can use.
I was told to use a s5 or better oil pump.
What I need is a list of what I need for the rest of the rebuild .

I'm trying to make a full list and see the full cost and how long it's going to take me and a friend.

Please don't flame me for asking this. I know 4 rotor and 3 rotor talk is thrown around alot but fails..... This is why I'm asking so I don't start and get over my head. Iam not new to rotarys I just cared about my my rx7 and my 12a.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Show us the money (but in your case, bank statement and such) first. Or you will get one of these babies:

or this

81WideMariah

iTrader: (8)

Hell for the money it's going to cost you, you might as well as move to Australia or New Zealand and see how those crazy bastards over there do it.

I'm not going to flame you, although I'm pretty sure you know it's coming sooner or later from someone else... but I can tell you that I'm about $5k into my 12a turbo build, a 20b build would probably cost you double that, so $10k, and a 4 rotor will probably be even double that if not more. You'll need to be a bad *** machinist as well, to connect the 2 E-shafts, and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Not for nothing... but this statement right here "I was told to use a s5 or better oil pump". Tells me that you're probably lacking the knowledge you're going to need to complete this. An S5 oil pump won't fit a 12a front iron. Besides, there's no way in hell you're going to feed a 4 rotor engine with a pump designed to be barely adequate for a 2 rotor engine. You're going to need some sort of dry sump system, and you're looking at around $3-$5k for that alone. Also, you can't easily mix 12a and 13b parts as 13b's have an extra tension bolt. Also, 12a parts are getting harder to come by, so finding 4 fantastic condition rotor housings will be nearly impossible, and putting shitty housings on your $20k+ build is a quick way to turn it into a big *** paper weight.... you get the idea.

So I'm guessing you can see why there aren't a lot of people that have attempted this much less completed it. But hey, if you want to be a pioneer, go for it. Just don't expect to be spoon-fed the answers you're looking for, they're just not there.

warwickben

iTrader: (1)

Im sorry I came off so wrong.
I know the cost of the big parts. I'm having trouble trying to explain my self, would I just need to buy two full rebuild kits or would i also need to buy More of certin seals etc.
I've read alot about these motors and just didnt want to make a list buy every thing over a period of time. Then when we go to build the motor cause we need one more of this seal .

Me and my friend have made a hybrid motor before. A turbo ford 2.3 with with a Volvo head.

So I do have a good idea on the cost just don't want to make a for get one extra tiny part. .
I'm just gonna stay with two 12a's cause I know alot about them.

PercentSevenC

Are you going through Jeff Bruce for the shaft and modded intermediate plates?

Peripheral or side ports? If you're doing peripherals, you could get an FD front plate so you can use the larger FD oil pump (the extra water seal groove will have to be filled in, of course). Will that be big enough? Heck if I know. But that's what Jeff20B is planning to do for his friend's 4-rotor build.

Unevolved

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure you're aware of how much a custom eccentric shaft is going to cost?

warwickben

iTrader: (1)

I didn't want to say his name but yes I contacted Jeff Bruce
About the kit.roughly 5k$ less for his kit then the one from the company that made the 4 rotor for mad mike drift racer. He told me to use a s5 oil pump or better and the water pump should be fine. I figured id go dry sump amd electric water pump later . I was think of just useing those stock parts to start the motor on the test stand .Yeah I was thinking of using the the fd plate.I have a hard time explaining my self. I've only really ever dealt with rebuilding and nodding my 12a. I know alot of parts from 13bs can be used on them just depends on what generation the 13b is. I got kinda rusty one remember all the parts etc so I feel bit like a noob.

I got ever thing figured out and beside buying new bearings and gaskets in a rebuild kit I'm looking at like 6k$ for the parts I need include the e shaft kit.

My only problem or I should say the only thing I have to figure out is when I call Atkins racing beat or some other place for a rebuild kit would I just need to buy two rebuild kits or 2 plus some extra seals gaskets. I know it sounds silly I just don't want to go put the motor togarther and realize I need just one more of this gasket or o ring.
On the sohc to dohc swap me and my buddy did we forgot to get some bolts to plug odd holes . Just don't wanna make a stupid mistake and forget one little part.

Me and my buddy don't even plan to start putting the motor togarther for some time just gonna buy parts now and then you know . I know I sound like a noob but I just have trouble expressing my self.

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

For cost of the parts you already mentioned, I would just get 2 full 12A rebuild kits
so you have some extras in case of unforeseen issues that might come up. You might
also want to invest in the viton water seals (the ones that can be reused) in case
you need to pull the motor apart after first start which might be highly likely in
this case.

I know zip about doing this but just thought I'd add the thoughts that I had after
reading through this.

warwickben

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for being nice yeah I'd rather just buy two rebuild kits and have spares then beshort. Well ill just do that and if I miss any thing I'll just order some more.

crazeyawesome

I think you're way over your head, but I would like to see how it goes.

Keep us all updated please

DallasFC1

iTrader: (2)

Based on the "I've put a Volvo head on a Ford 2.3L motor" comment, that would leave me to believe you were a former Mustang, T-Bird, Capri, or Volvo lover that completed a well documented relatively easy hybrid swap. Not to poke you in the eye or anything, but, what you are trying to do with a 12A 4 rotor build; is frankly lightyears ahead of a nifty head swap. Money aside and the kit you are buying excluded, you still have TONS of fabrication work just to prep the car alone. Then not to mention you will most likely need to source a more stable drive line for the car. Transmission, driveshaft, brakes, trans mounts, exhaust, etc...

Your staring at the neighborhood of $20k for the motor (high end of the spectrum), and at least $5 to $10k for custom fab work... Then I would suspect you may want to paint this new ride, so throw in another $2k for an "OK" paint job. Not to mention engine management, so toss another $3 to $4k on the pile for good measure, nearing the $40k mark... Far be it from me, if you got the cash to throw at this thing, you will get it done one way or another.

My suggestion would be to swap to a more readily available platform like the 13b and 13B REW engines. The 12A guys are running out of irons, when they are gone, the engine is dead and will never be built again. Sounds like you are just going to turn 2 hard to get and nice motors into really expensive fantastic paperweights.