Turboing a 12A
07-16-11, 03:46 PM
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Turboing a 12A
My motor is a streetported 12A with low milage, if I wanted to swap turbo parts off of a S4 T2 motor onto mine what would the list of parts needed consist of? I know I can mod the exhaust to fit my motor, how about the intake? I can't use my carb because its vacuum secondary, so if I couldn't mod the other intake I would have to get a dif carb and blow through set up. Also should I use a aftermarket intercooler instead of the orig? It would be great if I could get some responses back in which parts I would actually need off of the S4 T2 motor and additional parts needed just to get it to work well enough for a nice HP gain and daily driving. Thank you for the help.
07-16-11, 03:57 PM
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The TII intake won't fit without an adapter, which would need to have a place for the primary injectors to go. Do you still have the stock Nikki? Those can be boost-prepped fairly easily.
Take the turbo and exhaust manifold, and the complete intake manifold with injectors and fuel rails if you want to attempt to adapt it to the 12A. You may want to grab the water pump housing as well, since it has fittings that you can use for the turbo's water lines. Some people have modified the stock intercooler to work as a front-mount, but I'd suggest just picking up an aftermarket one from eBay. If you want, you could get the radiator, which makes for a nice upgrade over the 12A one.
Other parts you need will include a complete fuel system overhaul. Details will depend on whether you go EFI or blow-through. Also, exhaust, but you knew that already. And a wideband and other gauges.
Take the turbo and exhaust manifold, and the complete intake manifold with injectors and fuel rails if you want to attempt to adapt it to the 12A. You may want to grab the water pump housing as well, since it has fittings that you can use for the turbo's water lines. Some people have modified the stock intercooler to work as a front-mount, but I'd suggest just picking up an aftermarket one from eBay. If you want, you could get the radiator, which makes for a nice upgrade over the 12A one.
Other parts you need will include a complete fuel system overhaul. Details will depend on whether you go EFI or blow-through. Also, exhaust, but you knew that already. And a wideband and other gauges.
07-16-11, 08:52 PM
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Stock nikki is a no go, racing beat intake with a 650 holley. Although I am willing to bet I could score a good deal on a boost prepped carb off of here when the time comes. Thanks for the info, if anyone else has more to add feel free please.
07-16-11, 10:08 PM
#4
This is what I am gathering parts for on a fb build right now. Here is the build thread I am using as a source:
https://www.rx7club.com/old-school-other-rotary-63/rx2-sedan-12a-turbo-project-928917/
hope it helps you too.
https://www.rx7club.com/old-school-other-rotary-63/rx2-sedan-12a-turbo-project-928917/
hope it helps you too.
07-16-11, 10:48 PM
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Yeah that helps a little, I see that you had a plate fabbed for the intake? Intake bolted to plate which bolted to motor? I think I can handle that fab with some friends help, but I am a little intimidated by adding the neccessary electrical components. Thanks for the help
07-17-11, 01:04 PM
#6
When I first saw that thread I was intimidated by the same thing. But if you look, RotaryDave2006 is using mostly stock parts. My guess is that the computer only needs a switched 12v, a good ground, and signals from tps, injectors and cas. A second gen factory workshop manual should be more than enough to strip down the wiring (plus of course an fb manual as well)
As for the plate, you need not fab it up since there are companies here and overseas that make them already. I am probably oversimplifing everything as I'm sure there are quite alot of issues to sort once its all together, but I am excited to start. Wish my money was right, but time will give me everything...right? lol. Good luck with your build. Cant wait to see how it all comes together for you no matter which way you decide to build it.
As for the plate, you need not fab it up since there are companies here and overseas that make them already. I am probably oversimplifing everything as I'm sure there are quite alot of issues to sort once its all together, but I am excited to start. Wish my money was right, but time will give me everything...right? lol. Good luck with your build. Cant wait to see how it all comes together for you no matter which way you decide to build it.
07-17-11, 02:31 PM
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So I just scored a T2 turbo, Manifold, intercooler, and waterpump for 150. I am thinking thats a good deal. When I go over to pick up the parts tomorrow is there something I should be looking out for in T2 turbo parts?
Last edited by ExtenZe Overdose; 07-17-11 at 02:36 PM. Reason: added a thought
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07-18-11, 08:26 PM
#9
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Rotary shack sells carb hats. I would buy a 47 DCOE Weber carb with an intake and use one of their carb hats then turbo off of that. I have a Weber and it adds great power and I love it. They also sell a 12a turbo exhaust manifold.
Here is just the rotary shack website with descriptions and stuff.
http://www.rotaryshack.com/
Here is the ebay store with the manifold and carb hats.
http://stores.ebay.com/Rotary-Shack
Here is just the rotary shack website with descriptions and stuff.
http://www.rotaryshack.com/
Here is the ebay store with the manifold and carb hats.
http://stores.ebay.com/Rotary-Shack
07-19-11, 05:43 PM
#11
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Yeah I understand. I bought the Weber from them and I had some problems. The guy poorly packaged the carb. It was dropped while it was being shipped and because it was poorly packaged it bent the velocity stacks. They are the only people that carry some of the products that I want so I have to buy from them.
07-19-11, 10:50 PM
#13
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I phrased that the wrong way. It was really my bad luck. Rotary shack is a great store with great products. The staff was helpful, very profesional, and answered any questions I had.I would with no hesitation use them for my turbo and Rx-7 needs. Im sorry to hear about your friends and our fellow members. Rotary shack was good to me and I really dont think they belong on your black list. You should give them a chance.
07-20-11, 03:47 PM
#17
Those Ebay manifolds are made from cheap super thin stainless... they won't be able to handle the heat from a turbo rotary. It will crack.... no if, ands, or buts about it. And I'm sure you don't want to pull your turbo off every other month to re-weld your manifold.
Statique was selling my old Arkay cast iron manifold a little while back. Bolts right up to 12a and has a T4 flange.
Statique was selling my old Arkay cast iron manifold a little while back. Bolts right up to 12a and has a T4 flange.
07-20-11, 04:23 PM
#19
Depends on what manifold you get from ebay. I made sure on the manifold I got that it was in fact the 2.7(2.3?, I forget) mm thickness advertised in the auction. I wrote messages back and forth and they personally went and measured it. It is in fact that thick for the one I got. All depends on what manifold and seller it is..
07-20-11, 05:40 PM
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13B manifolds will work very will with a little grinding on the insides of the runners to match the ports in the housings. I reccommend using nothing but cast iron. Period. A tubular steel turbo manifold will give you fits even on a piston engine--I promise. Keep in mind that the factory turbo has an internal wastegate, and an aftermarket will not. An aftermarket turbo will require a manifold with accommodation for an external wastegate. It's all about $$$, you can get away with much less if you can scavenge things off of turbo2 cars. Start small, scavenge as much as you can including clutches, trannys, motors, differentials, and whatever else you think you might need. Things break under boost, especially when you're learning.
Look into megasquirt, everybody knows it's cheap and gives you more control over your engine and better driveability. What people often fail to mention is how much it will teach you--and just how easy it is to blow things up when you mix carbs and boost. Sure, blowthru setups work, and someone that has experience with them can make them work really well. But if you're just learning about boosted rotaries I strongly suggest you avoid carbs like the plague, for now. An improperly tuned carb on an N/A will be slow, an improperly tuned carb under boost will usually go unnoticed untill it goes 'boom'.
Go with a front mount intercooler and a front mount oil cooler, and make sure they don't shroud each other. While you're at it grab that second gen radiator and an e-fan. Spend some time looking at your engine bay, and the manifolds and turbo, trying to figure out where you're going to route everything. You may not believe me now, but space will be at a premium once you cram all that extra stuff in there. Think about how oil, coolant, fuel, intake, exhaust, etc. lines are going to run. Does your front cover have a good spot to put an oil drain? You may need to pick up an 84+ cover so you can have a good spot to put it.
The difference between the guy that spent $1500 and went turbo and blew his car up a week later, and the guy that spent $1200 and enjoies his car every weekend for years comes down to one thing: one spent many weeks of research on this forum and picking through junkyards, untill he knew exactly what his options were and what to expect from each.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Good luck, have fun, Ben
Look into megasquirt, everybody knows it's cheap and gives you more control over your engine and better driveability. What people often fail to mention is how much it will teach you--and just how easy it is to blow things up when you mix carbs and boost. Sure, blowthru setups work, and someone that has experience with them can make them work really well. But if you're just learning about boosted rotaries I strongly suggest you avoid carbs like the plague, for now. An improperly tuned carb on an N/A will be slow, an improperly tuned carb under boost will usually go unnoticed untill it goes 'boom'.
Go with a front mount intercooler and a front mount oil cooler, and make sure they don't shroud each other. While you're at it grab that second gen radiator and an e-fan. Spend some time looking at your engine bay, and the manifolds and turbo, trying to figure out where you're going to route everything. You may not believe me now, but space will be at a premium once you cram all that extra stuff in there. Think about how oil, coolant, fuel, intake, exhaust, etc. lines are going to run. Does your front cover have a good spot to put an oil drain? You may need to pick up an 84+ cover so you can have a good spot to put it.
The difference between the guy that spent $1500 and went turbo and blew his car up a week later, and the guy that spent $1200 and enjoies his car every weekend for years comes down to one thing: one spent many weeks of research on this forum and picking through junkyards, untill he knew exactly what his options were and what to expect from each.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Good luck, have fun, Ben
07-20-11, 08:27 PM
#21
I phrased that the wrong way. It was really my bad luck. Rotary shack is a great store with great products. The staff was helpful, very profesional, and answered any questions I had.I would with no hesitation use them for my turbo and Rx-7 needs. Im sorry to hear about your friends and our fellow members. Rotary shack was good to me and I really dont think they belong on your black list. You should give them a chance.
07-20-11, 08:31 PM
#22
13B manifolds will work very will with a little grinding on the insides of the runners to match the ports in the housings. I reccommend using nothing but cast iron. Period. A tubular steel turbo manifold will give you fits even on a piston engine--I promise. Keep in mind that the factory turbo has an internal wastegate, and an aftermarket will not. An aftermarket turbo will require a manifold with accommodation for an external wastegate. It's all about $$$, you can get away with much less if you can scavenge things off of turbo2 cars. Start small, scavenge as much as you can including clutches, trannys, motors, differentials, and whatever else you think you might need. Things break under boost, especially when you're learning.
Look into megasquirt, everybody knows it's cheap and gives you more control over your engine and better driveability. What people often fail to mention is how much it will teach you--and just how easy it is to blow things up when you mix carbs and boost. Sure, blowthru setups work, and someone that has experience with them can make them work really well. But if you're just learning about boosted rotaries I strongly suggest you avoid carbs like the plague, for now. An improperly tuned carb on an N/A will be slow, an improperly tuned carb under boost will usually go unnoticed untill it goes 'boom'.
Go with a front mount intercooler and a front mount oil cooler, and make sure they don't shroud each other. While you're at it grab that second gen radiator and an e-fan. Spend some time looking at your engine bay, and the manifolds and turbo, trying to figure out where you're going to route everything. You may not believe me now, but space will be at a premium once you cram all that extra stuff in there. Think about how oil, coolant, fuel, intake, exhaust, etc. lines are going to run. Does your front cover have a good spot to put an oil drain? You may need to pick up an 84+ cover so you can have a good spot to put it.
The difference between the guy that spent $1500 and went turbo and blew his car up a week later, and the guy that spent $1200 and enjoies his car every weekend for years comes down to one thing: one spent many weeks of research on this forum and picking through junkyards, untill he knew exactly what his options were and what to expect from each.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Good luck, have fun, Ben
Look into megasquirt, everybody knows it's cheap and gives you more control over your engine and better driveability. What people often fail to mention is how much it will teach you--and just how easy it is to blow things up when you mix carbs and boost. Sure, blowthru setups work, and someone that has experience with them can make them work really well. But if you're just learning about boosted rotaries I strongly suggest you avoid carbs like the plague, for now. An improperly tuned carb on an N/A will be slow, an improperly tuned carb under boost will usually go unnoticed untill it goes 'boom'.
Go with a front mount intercooler and a front mount oil cooler, and make sure they don't shroud each other. While you're at it grab that second gen radiator and an e-fan. Spend some time looking at your engine bay, and the manifolds and turbo, trying to figure out where you're going to route everything. You may not believe me now, but space will be at a premium once you cram all that extra stuff in there. Think about how oil, coolant, fuel, intake, exhaust, etc. lines are going to run. Does your front cover have a good spot to put an oil drain? You may need to pick up an 84+ cover so you can have a good spot to put it.
The difference between the guy that spent $1500 and went turbo and blew his car up a week later, and the guy that spent $1200 and enjoies his car every weekend for years comes down to one thing: one spent many weeks of research on this forum and picking through junkyards, untill he knew exactly what his options were and what to expect from each.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Good luck, have fun, Ben
Very well put indeed.
Read this post over and over, it makes sense. "I" would try blowing through a carb, only because I am almost 50 and played with them all my life. Wiring up an entire engine management system, yuck, above my head. However, blow through a carb "without" years of knowledge, kaboom for sure! trust someone else (mentioned above) to prepare a carb for you and trust their guess on the right jets, etc.....boom.
07-21-11, 10:59 PM
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Yeah, what he said^
Very well put indeed.
Read this post over and over, it makes sense. "I" would try blowing through a carb, only because I am almost 50 and played with them all my life. Wiring up an entire engine management system, yuck, above my head. However, blow through a carb "without" years of knowledge, kaboom for sure! trust someone else (mentioned above) to prepare a carb for you and trust their guess on the right jets, etc.....boom.
Very well put indeed.
Read this post over and over, it makes sense. "I" would try blowing through a carb, only because I am almost 50 and played with them all my life. Wiring up an entire engine management system, yuck, above my head. However, blow through a carb "without" years of knowledge, kaboom for sure! trust someone else (mentioned above) to prepare a carb for you and trust their guess on the right jets, etc.....boom.
The hardest part I guess is reading through the entire megamanual and then getting a box full of transistors and diodes which can be a bit intimidating. Once you've done it once you wish you had tried it sooner. For N/A, I have usually been able to squeeze just the tiny bit more power out of my beloved webers, and driveability tuning is about the same amount of work with about the same results. For boost I have never been able to duplicate the power and driveability I can get from a well-tuned ecu.
Ben
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