84 rx-7

can i have a supercharger plus a turbo on my 12a?

$100T2

iTrader: (1)

Sure.

candyassmiler

sweetass.

ApG Spaz

if you can afford it

Smilodon

Keeping in mind that since the power density of the package is going to dramatically increase, you will want to dramatically increase the cooling capacity of the engine. Big radiator, lower temperature thermostat, bigger or more oil cooler(s) a fan or two in front of the radiator and oil cooler(s.)

Then, you need to decide what kind of turbo and blower you want.

If you want to use a centrifugal blower, I would not think that you would really need a turbo, because they do not have as dissimilar boost characteristics as a roots blower, for example, and a turbo.

Then, you need to decide how you will utilize them. I have seen a setup on an old WRC car that had a roots blower driven by a PTO from the crankshaft. It also had a turbocharger. The roots blower provided boost at lower RPMs, and once the turbo provided enough boost, the turbo boost was what fed the motor. Whether the drive for the blower was shut off or the blower was just bypassed, or something else, I don't know.

But, instead of that, why not just design your induction system so that it does well by itself at low RPM, so that when you add the turbo, it boosts it nicely at higher RPM, and you will have a motor that is quite driveable, with a fairly broad power curve. And you won't need a blower.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

CLICK ME

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

holy crazy subaru

yes you can do it, but you better have some skills up your sleeve in order to pull it off. not saying it will be hard to put together, but will be even harder to keep reliable.

rx_playa

do it

Eriks85Rx7

holy cow.. wow that subaru is crazy..... Like others said before you to get the BEST cooling system possible also be sure to rebuild it there is no way an 12a can handle the stress of both. When u rebuild get a cermac coating for extra reliability. and yo got to have an Extremely HIgh flow exhaust system.

dirty86

i remember reading about a guys WRC car that had both and once the PSI reached a certain amount the super charger went off much like an a/c system is driven like a pressure switch. if you think about it it woulndt be hard to setup a pressure switch and setupthe blower with an A/c unit clutch say the pressure switch turns on below 10psi and off at where ever the turbo is making more boost then charger could.


you could do it, easy.
do it.

Jon_Valjean

Sure, why would you want to?

yuichiror

iTrader: (1)

It's called "twin-charging" And yes it's very possible. I've seen a quad twin charged semi before, but it was strictly for show. I recall somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 psi. boost. BUT REMEMBER IT"S ON T DIESEL SEMI TRUCK.

steve84GS TII

Twin charging was used heavily with 2 stroke diesels.The mechanical blower provided intake pressure during cranking and evacuated the exhaust gasses at low running speeds.Once the engine wound up and the turbo(s) kicked in,the superchargers we no longer needed.Its nothing new and was only used because 2 stroke diesels HAD to have positive intake pressure all the time.
Nowadays,twin charging is not much needed because 2 stroke diesels arent as common and on 4 stroke engines,we now have fast spooling,high tech turbos.If you select a good turbo,exhaust system and use a good boost controller,theres no need to go the complicated,expensive and cumbersome twin charger route.
Yes,some people have done it,and yes its pretty original,but its not the norm and its not really nessecary if you design your turbo system right.....

erick1120

Take a look at this link.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/automot...cbccdrcrd.html

fcdrifter13

Holy crap this **** is od. Man this has been done since like the 40s. But on Diesel engines. Now heres what I would do. Pick one or the other not both.

If you really want to go with both get a clutch type supercharger that way at lower RPMs you have boost, But yet you will have parasitic drag, now when it gets up to spooling speed on the turbo the supercharger kicks off and no turbo lag and no drag from the S/C. This Idea was first tried in the 60s with no sucess. The clutches in the S/C system keep burning up in like half a years time.

But with todays technology and if your pocket is deep enough anything is possible. But I would just use a Turbo. On diesel engone the S/C is almost obsolete because:
1 it takes power to make power
2 teflon strips on the newer type S/C need replacing quite often
3 Wieghs more than a turbo
4 takes power to make power
5 uses more fuel beacuse it takes power to make power

Go TURBO. Its the only way to go fast

Alex Saunders

kettlman

iTrader: (2)

that suby is pretty sick. nicely set up. an different.at first glance i would have said that it would be use less to supercharge and turbo the same engine. cause the suppercharger would ruin the turbo's air flow. but with a side mounted supercharger and 2 intake inlets. looks to work. alot of work. if you got the money, do it. if not, use some nitrous to spool up the turbo. will work good.

dirty86

or just get an anti lag system like the rally cars have.... injects gas into turbine igniting it and spooling turbo

lovintha7

If that Vdub hits the US, put money on one being in my driveway. 48 mpg, and twincharged. Can't complain for a daily daily driver.

REVHED

This guy twin-charged a 13B very successfully.

http://www.haltech.com/whoshot_nath323.htm

I've read the full article and there's some very clever engineering that's gone into this car. Basically, he has about 10psi from the blower almost from idle then the turbo takes over at 4000rpm at full boost.

Brismo7

iTrader: (2)

thats retarded. turbo weighs more becuase of all that extra and heavy metal piping.


~Steve

fcdrifter13

Oh damn dont even make me go into detail with the stuff I work with. You aint gonna like getting proved wrong by me. A diesel supercharger is after cooled and has the same amount of tubing as a turbo. Also the S/C I work with wiegh in at around 400lbs. The after cooler its self is another 250. Plus piping another 50lbs.

Now a turbo for some of the bigger engines only wiegh in at about 150bls and the same wieght for the after cooler and piping as stated above. So yes there is a signifigant wieght difference. BTW I am a diesl mechanic, so just dont ry to prove me wrong, ill just pull an even bigger motor and bigger parts out. Oh and I also died for 5min. Look in the lounge and see how.

Turbo is the only way to go.

Alex Saunders

a13btrx7@hotmail.com

only twincharged car iver ever seen was an mk1 mr2 . it was called twin charged , and was a 11sec monster . i read the article on that **** , looked complicated but the turbo was feeding of the supercharger .which had amazing low and high end . that thing was an exotic killer ......

REVHED

How does that have anything to do with rotaries or automotive forced induction in general?

If you compare a typical turbo and positive displacement supercharger setup there is probably not much difference in weight at all. Also, a centrigual blower would probably weigh less than a turbo even when intercooled as it doesn't have a heavy turbo manifold or wastegate hanging off it.

fcdrifter13

My first post says why the supercharger is going obsolete. But its first going out on diesl motors. Somone said that there is noway that a SC can wiegh more and that was me explaning what difference is. If I were to S/c with a roots type blower I would also run a IC and all the piping. Mainly because the roots type blowers are cheaper to get ahold of. I think someone on the second gen forums did the same thing accually.

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

My uncle's VW Wagon with a 1.8t was the test mule at Eaton for this project, and he was one of the engineers for the project. I was talking to him about it, and he said that it was extremely difficult to make it run smoothly and reliably, but he said driving it is amazing.