cveklund

Hi,

I have never set the timimg on my car, or any other car fot that matter, and was couroug on how to do it? I assume all I need is a timimg light. Do the induction ones work good? I need to know everything I should do inorder to set it, like where does the idle need to be set, ect. Also, what settings do you recomend? It is a 85 12a stock w/o rats nest.

Thanks,
Chris

David88vert

Yes, induction works fine.
Follow these instructions.
http://personal.riverusers.com/~yawpower/pultime.html

SilverRocket

CAREFUL!!!!

Setting your timing advance as suggested in the above article has resulted in broken sparkplugs (risk of destroyed engine) for several of us here and on mazspeed.

You should only advance that far if you are *absolutely sure* of your mixture settings. These are razor's edge settings, I don't know what Yaw is talking about with this "can't detonate an n/a rotary under 30 degrees" etc... you most assuredly can, and several of us have seen it - my opinion is don't even think about settings like that if you have a stock carb, along with some mods like exhaust, and can't be sure of correct mixtures.

A much safer and IMO better-feeling setting is the Racing Beat recommended of approx. 2 degrees more advanced than stock. I believe it's 2L/19T at idle, don't quote me on it, check for yourself.

Do research and get more info if you're going to set it at anything other than stock.

BY THE WAY:

I'm sick of seeing people posting this link for people with stock carbs, unknown mods, etc. There needs to be a strong disclaimer on that advice - it is not for everyone. Some people with some setups could easily destroy their engines by following that advice.

So please people, post that link with a disclaimer, or don't post it at all! If all the guy wants is how to set his timing, write it out for him, link to something without that advice, or tell him to buy the Haynes manual.

cveklund

Thanks for your help. I was thinking of advancing my timing but I am unsure if I have the correct mixture (a/f, correct?) I appreciate you guys looking out for me as I am still new to the Rotary World. I think I will leave it at scock.

Thanks,
Chris

David88vert

I've done this on quite a few stock 12A's and stock GSL-SE's - never had a problem, never broken a spark plug. I've also spent numerous hours on the dyno tuning with my own GSL-SE (not stock). We've taken stock port GSL-SE's to crazy advances, as well as mildly built 12A's to crazy advances - and run it on the dyno and at the track, as well as on the street.

Anytime you get away from stock settings, you take a risk. But I have yet to see a problem myself from any of Yaw's settings. And we've followed them many, many times. If you're breaking spark plugs at 24L/16T on a stock 12A, then you have some other more serious problems with your setup. But I will agree with you that you could possibly do damage - I just haven't seen it on a properly running car yet. Have you personally had any problems with Yaw's suggestions?

BTW - I am not attacking your statements - just wondering if you have personal knowledge of it, or just heard of problems.

SilverRocket

A while ago, I ran the 24/16 for about 4 months with no problems, and then broke a trailing plug, which caused high load misfire/detonation... Went to RB settings immediately. Tried Yaw settings again a while later, broken trailing plug incident was replicated. Setup was stock 12A, stock Nikki with a few minor tweaks, no emissions, RB exhaust, e-fan, air filter. Stock NGK plugs.

After doing some research about it, found out that several people on here and Mazspeed have had exactly the same problem. But there's a large degree of variation across personal experiences. Someone even posted that 24/16 on his brand new built motor was detonating on the dyno, while others report running crazy settings and no detonation.

The key is that you can run those settings for a while on a near stock setup without trouble, not noticing anything, and then suddenly break a plug. It's way too risky for me considering the relatively small power gain we're talking about over the RB settings.

Right now I'm running a Dellorto, etc, and platinum FD trailing plugs all around. I"ve tried the Yaw settings with no trouble with my current setup, and no apparent problem. But again, you never know; I'm not willing to risk it for the minimal gain. I prefer the feel of the RB settings personally.

I'm not trying to say that you're wrong, or that you can't run those settings with no trouble on many peoples' setups... BUT, on some cars, this will cause problems. So I don't think the advice should be given out freely, with no disclaimer.

Fennix_sr

what kind of gains do you get out of a minor advance?

David88vert

A couple of questions:
What octane gas were you running?
Did you have the vacuum advance disconnected?
How old were the plugs? Which NGK's were you using?
What kind of timing light were you using? Were you using an advance wheel on the light or did you make the timing pulley?
If you made the timing pulley, at what degrees did you make your marks? How did you determine where to make your marks?

The reason that I ask these questions is that I have already found where people have made small errors that could cause damage like a broken spark plug before. I can go into detail on this with you privately, if you like. Just don't want people on the forum trying some of the really crazy settings that we've done - and blowing up.

SilverRocket

Regular 87 Octane gas. (I was wondering about this so I asked on Mazspeed; as I recall people said keep running regular octane even with the advanced settings. Of course that could well be an issue.) What's your take on that?

Vacuum advance disconnected.

Brand new NGK's... whatever the standard ones are, BRQ14's or whatever it is.

I marked my timing pulley, every 5 degrees, using a set of vernier calipers, as described by Yaw in that article. I'm pretty sure I did a decent job. No advance wheel on the timing light.

I"ve always attributed this to my suspicion that the stock Nikki was running lean through the midrange of the powerband. I wouldn't be surprised if I could run 24/16, etc, with no problems on my Dellorto.

Hmmm.... I'd be interested in some further details of your experience with this stuff. It might benefit the folks on here to learn about it as well though. You don't have to talk specifically about exact settings if you don't want to.

David88vert

The higher the octane, the lower the risk of detonation. Anytime you are going for more performance, and pushing harder, you should raise the octane level for protection. I run 93 on the street, on the track, it depends on how hardyou are willing to push your settings. Many of the guys run Cool Blue 100 or even 107 on the track.
I would say that octane could definately have been a factor. The more you advance the timing, the higher the octane rating you need.

8's are stock on the 12a, 9's on GSL-SE's. I run B9EV's (motorcycle plugs) on my own GSL-SE, but I would recommend 2nd gen trailing plugs (BUR9EQ) for anyone playing with timing (no prongs to break off). The more you advance the timing, the cooler the plug you need.

It sounds like you did your pulley correctly and used the right timing light. Just checking. We have found the advance on the lights does not work right with the rotarys.

If you are running lean on the Nikki, you probably just need to adjust the a/f ratio screw. Richen it up a little for safety. You probably didn't need the Dellorto for this, but it sure is nice to have. :-) Personally, we run the dual Weber 36's on the 12a's - when possible. BadAssRX-7 would be a good one to talk to about those. He has them, as well as my cousin's GSL (he's running 5L/15T right now - pump gas).

I have free access to a dyno here, so I sit and play with timing, fuel pressure settings, etc. a good little bit. I also have a really good tuner here that keeps me in check from trying to stretch things too far. :-)