DerrickS

I was searching around for S5 swap info (into a GSL-SE) and only came up with a couple of threads, and neither one really answered all my questions. What can anyone out there that knows tell me about doing this?

Im an idiot and don't know too much about these things, but I'm a decent mechanic and was thinking about doing this swap in my car. The only thing I can tell is that I would need to use my LIM to keep the 6-ports working, and need to use my front cover and oil pan.

What about the OMP? can use the mechanical setup I have now?

I would like to use my ECU, so I think I need to keep my air box and not use the S5 MAF, and there are some sensors that would need to swap over. What else? Or is it easier to run an S5 ECU and wire harness, and could that be done without tearing the whole dash apart?

Or should I just look for a nice S4 to go in, since it seems like that has been done more often?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

you mean S5 NA block? in a GSL-SE its almost plug and play. you use the GSL-SE front cover/oil pan. water pump housings are up to you, either fits.

the GSL-SE intake/wiring/distributor bolts right on and all the passages remain functional. the gsl-se metering pump and lines will fit the S5, as will the oil cooler lines .

for flywheel, you need to use an S5 one, the clutches are the same.

DerrickS

OK that sounds real doable. There shouldn't be any fuel issues? I'm just thinking the s5 is going to be more thirsty since it makes more power and sucks more air.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

if you have a good exhaust, like an RB streetport system, it will be borderline, you should send your injectors out, or just replace em with 700's. you probably will also want to change all three fuel filters, there is an intank, one before the pump, and then the actual filter. another thing you could/should check is fuel pump voltage, compare to the voltage at the alternator, and if its way off, you might run a relay and new wires

if you're not using an exhaust like that, its fine.

Sgt.Stinkfist

iTrader: (6)

Won't the S5 computer have a CEL if anything electronic is removed, such as egr solenoid and/or electronic omp? Not sure if it affects the performance or puts it into any type of limp mode though

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

maybe, some things don't turn on the CEL, but will store a code, like the ACV stuff. the metering pump needs to be there otherwise the car will be in limp home.

the S5 ecu is really way too complex to swap in, its not worth doing, i think the OP was just talking about the S5 block, with GSL-SE everything else, which is a great combo

NCross

iTrader: (18)

Most everything will cause a CEL on a series 5 if unplugged. Although none of it should really alter drivability or AF mixture etc. unless it is the signal wire that connects all the main sensors tgether (boost,intake temp,coolant temp,AFM,CAS,TPS). If you run a mechanical OMP you have to use aftermarket engine management or RTEK chip unless you want to plug the s5 OMP in and tuck it away in the engine compartment. It does have to be there though or you will be limited to like 3000 RPM. I forget...

peejay

The S5 is one of the few cross-generational engine swaps where you can bolt the block into the car and use all of your old accessories and everything works.

andernamen

iTrader: (2)

I thought the GSL SE LIM doesnt line up to an S5 block. You would lose the 6 port, right? You also would have to block off the extra injector ports. Basically i guess you are planning on using all tha SE intake, ecu, injectors, omp lines, etc.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

nope the GSL-SE intake lines up with the S5 block and everything works. the S4 has different air injection ports, so if you do S4 into GSL-SE it blocks off the air injection and will never pass smog

peejay

The extra power that the S5 has is mostly in the accessories though, namely the intake manifold and ignition timing tuning, none of which you'll be using.

The lighter rotating assembly is nicer, though, and 2mm seals mean the engine should last longer.

NCross

iTrader: (18)

Dont forget higher compression.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i think this is a point that escapes many ... and not just here (in the case of the S5 N/A vs. older N/A 13Bs), but in general, with other engines and platforms. i know finances and ability may limit some people, but it still doesn't change the fact that power and power curves are dictated only partly (a relatively small one at that) by the engine itself.

peejay

Yah, if the port timing is the same, and the port runners are the same size, the engine is going to move the same amount of air in and exhaust the same amount of air out. The higher compression will help it utilize the air more efficiently and the thinner seals will seal better and have less friction, but at the power levels we're talking about, the difference is probably on par with how tightly you've set the side seal clearances.

But, gosh, the GSL-SE intake manifold sucks rocks to the max. I haven't tried a S5 intake but the S4 intake is leaps and bounds better and probably accounts for 10 of the 11hp difference between GSL-SE and S4...

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i've driven it both ways and i like the GSL-SE intake on the FC block, vs the FC intake on the GSL-SE block. although its actually not a huge difference.

the S5 intake makes more HP than the S4, but its all after 5500, and its soggier below 3000 than the S4, so actually i kind of like the S4...

i think this means i'm saying i'll take throttle response over top end?

peejay

Now you have me wondering if it's worth putting together a stockport 6-port engine just so I can experience the VDI intake... Somehow I have three of them now.

DerrickS

OK, so my thinking at the beginning of this was that I would use S5 block, with S3 LIM but the S5 UIM. I'm thinking to use the SE ECU so that would mean SE sensors and all.
My main reasons for wanting to do this were so I could use a later engine with higher compression, and use the better intake (been thinking about S4 intake swap for a while now anyway). My engine needs a rebuild, and since I wanted to do the later intake, I figured I might as well just go with complete later engine.
Good to know about the fuel. I am planning on getting a RB full exhaust for the -SE (because why open up the intake if your not going to open up the exhaust?) and I was going to check all the filters anyway. Good advice to check the voltage at the pump. With all the other wiring issues of an old Mazda, it probably needs to be set right.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i don't think the S3 lower works with the S5 upper, but S5 lower will bolt to S5 upper like it was made to do so

i think with an S5 intake you'll be wanting more fuel, but i've never actually tried that, on a GSL-SE ecu/distributor

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

it is fun in a street car because power peaks around 7500 instead of 6500, and the fun part isn't the HP number, but the shape of the curve. butt dyno says power goes up the higher you rev it = fun! the Ls1 peaks @2000rpm not fun. one is faster than the other, but fun does not equal speed, in a street car

the downside is that the engine revs 1000rpm higher, but you have the same gearing, so in my vert redlining in 3rd requires clearing your calendar for the week. 8250rpm in 3rd in the FC vert is more than 100mph, and its only got 160hp, so you put foot down, achieve 65mph, balance checkbook, shave, check to make sure you have enough time do keep doing this before winter, reevaluate your life, and hit the limiter.

i really like the vert, i've had every variant of the FC, and the vert is hands down my favorite, but going to shorter tires, and or 4.3 rear gears would be a good thing

DerrickS

Yeah that's what I was thinking about the fuel. Of course that won't really matter if I can't run the S3 lower and the S5 upper. I would run the whole S5 setup, but I don't know how to open the 6 ports that way, and my skills are not so much skills as they are thoughts.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

this is an interesting thread. in addition to the motor and ecu, i believe it will be very helpful for someone to add other stuff from a S5 to make the FB transplant possible or to ease the pain.

peejay

Mind you, you're talking to the guy who has the revs drop DOWN to 6500 or so after a shift... or at least, on the 2-3 shift at the dragstrip the redline buzzer doesn't stop buzzing.



And I wonder why my rotor housings have peeled the chrome off...

DerrickS

^^
Gotta love those rotors ;-)