RX-187

I am replacing my clutch and have just removed the transmission. Now I need to remove the pilot bearing. I took a trip down to Autozone to borrow the pilot bearing remover tool, but had to return it because it had problems with fitment. I visited shop after shop but Autozone is the only place that carries the tool. What is alternative way to remove the pilot bearing? Thanks in advance.

Rotary13B1

iTrader: (8)

Many people will suggest drilling it out with a rotary tool such as a dremel. The only way I have gotten it out is with this:



Mazdatrix Parts#49-1285-0710
Pilot Bearing Remover makes an absolute breeze of a sometimes almost impossible job. We tried most of the after market removers, many grinders, and homemade tools. The first time we used this correct tool we wondered why we ever bothered with anything else.

One shot and you're done. Gotta have the right tools for the right job.

Rotary13B1

iTrader: (8)

DOUBLEPOST

peejay

Is the bearing *bad*?

If you haven't damaged it in any way by trying to remove it, and it was fine beforehand, I'd say leave it alone. Pilot bearings are the kind of thing you don't change just for the hell of it - generally the only reason they fail is if they are installed improperly. And if it hasn't failed, then it's been installed properly, and will probably last forever.

RX-187

Thanks guys. Well, it is my first time to replace a clutch.

Rotary13B1: How much is the tool? I've never dealt with Mazdatrix before, how did you go about on buying?


Unfortunately, I have already damaged it trying to remove it w/ a screwdriver and put in the fresh one. It was fine beforehand, but I thought I would try to take the old one out and put the new part in. I knew I should of left it alone....

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

Ya my buddy (mcnanny) just did the exact same thing. It WAS fine till he messed it up, trying to pull it out!!!

But he went and got a puller from the local shop, and it worked O.K.

otherwise just get the mazdatrix part. I think its $40

I'm doing my clutch right now. But i just got the disc and pressure plate.

Wankelguy

ALWAYS replace the pilot bearing and seal while you have the motor and tranny seperated. It's cheap insurance. The little jaws on the bearing puller I borrowed from the local parts store weren't quite the right shape to grab the bearing securely, so I modified it with a hammer and a file until it DID work.

RX-187

Why is that? What if I don't replace it (not that I will really not)?

cosmicbang

If you don't replace it, it might last just fine. If it fails, you will have to go through the same effort as changing the clutch, so it is easier to replace everything at once. That is why most people change it, as insurance. My opinion is ALWAYS change the pilot bearing and pilot bearing seal, (and clutch release bearing). For those that re-use them, do you also re-use clutch pressure plates? just curious, lol. There are many ways to get the thing out, and the Mazda tool is the best. I would not recommend any grinding or cutting inside your e-shaft. Some slide hammers have attachments that work, and there is another tool, (lifter remover, valve puller or something?), that will work. Another suggestion:Make sure you clean out the end of the shaft and the transmission input shaft, and don't get any dirt or debris in the hole.

RX-187

Ha! I finally got it out! I got the tool from Harbor Freight but had to alter it to make it fit by grinding its teeth down a bit more. Now I just need to wait for the seal to arrive to put everything back together. My question is because the bearing was so dry when I got it out, do I need to lubricate the new one I put in or leave it as is?

Tanjo

lube it. pack it with grease.

bliffle

If it's a sintered bronze "Oilite" bearing, fill it with motor oil by balancing it upright on your thumb, fill it like a cup with oil, then press your other thumb into the open top until oil beads come out the sides. It will then be properly saturated with oil. Sometimes they are primed with oil when you get them, but sometimes not. Same thing applies to starter bearings (especially the nose bearing) and alternator bearings.

B

peejay

But generally the only reason they fail is they weren't installed properly. It's a vew low load part with very low useage-hours.

If you're paranoid about it, throw some fresh grease in there.

It has always been company policy everywhere I've worked that you *never* change the pilot bushing/bearing unless there is Just Cause. And each place said "we've never had a problem". And I have never had a problem.

Better to keep the known good part in there, than risk having to pull the tranny out again because the new one failed.

cosmicbang

I'll take your word for it. Since I always change it I would never know.

wae

I apologize for the threadjack, but I'm in the middle of the same operation on my '85 -SE. When I pulled the clutch off the flywheel, I got a bunch of bits of metal falling out all over the place. Upon closer inspection, those bits were the needle rollers from the pilot bearing (the car was acting like it was hanging up on the pilot bearing before I tore her apart).

I put my slide hammer into the e-shaft and, after a few pulls, got a metal ring to pop out. There is still something inside the e-shaft, but I do not know if it is part of the bearing, or the spot where the bearing used to be. It's got a couple fairly tiny ridges, and looks like it's either the outer part of the old pilot bearing or the spot on the e-shaft where the new one is supposed to sit. I double-checked the model number, and it is the correct kit for this car, however, the little metal ring that I pulled out appears to be just barely larger than the new pilot bearing. I've tried to seat the slide hammer on one of the ridges that remains and I have been unable to make any progress.

Can anyone tell me what I'm supposed to feel on the inside of the e-shaft once the bearing is all the way out? Should it be perfectly smooth all the way back, or should there be small, but sharply defined, ridges? (what I'm really asking is: should I keep trying to pull something out of there, or is it time to put down the hammer? =) )

cosmicbang

The bearing is approx. 3/4 inches long. The seal looks like a ring and sits on the outside of the bearing. Therefore it sounds like you pulled the seal off and the bearing "race" is probably still in there. I don't know why it would feel like "ridges" though? The shaft should be smooth inside when the bearing is not in it. Use a light and look in there visually.

wae

Getting to the end of my rope here... The wife and I are leaving on Friday night for a week-long driving vacation, and it's going to be really hard to drive the car without a pilot bearing =)

I've determined that I have pulled out the seal and that the bearing was mostly destroyed before I ever started working on it. All that remains in the shaft is the outer race of the bearing. The ridges that I describe are where the needle rollers would go, before they disintegrated and fell out. I bought a slide hammer at Harbor Freight and managed to completely trash it (that is one of the biggest bits of junk I've ever tried to use). I have the Autozone puller, but the HF slide hammer is not the right size. My plan is to go out to Sears and get (another) slide hammer that the AZ puller will fit. I am skeptical that this method is going to work, though, because there is a very, very tiny lip which remains on that bearing sleeve, and I think that the force involved is simply skipping the jaws of the puller over those 1-2mm ridges and sending the slide hammer across the room.

How bad will it really be if I manage to get a few scratches in the e-shaft? I'm thinking that at this point, I don't have very many options that don't include trying to grind, beat, or pry that thing out.

coldy13

I've never tried this, but I was told it works great. Pack the hole with grease up to just past the back of the pilot bearing. Get a smooth metal rod that fits the inside of the bearing snugly. Put the rod in there and hit it with the hammer. It should pop the bearing right out.

I've always taken mine out using a chisel. I sharpen the chisel very sharp and it makes it easy to break the outer race, the just pull it out with needle nose pliers.

If you put a few scratches in the e-shaft, I wouldn't worry about it. As long as you can get the new bearing in it should be fine.

inittab

you can rent a tool for 15 bucks from here:

http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/sadrivetrain_clutch.html

Wankelguy

Seems the Mazda pilot bearings are a bit smaller in diameter than most boinger pilot bearings. That's why the jaws on the "universal" pullers are almost always too big. Good work modifying yours, now your rotary buddies will want to borrow it.

Here's a tip for installing the new pilot bearing: Grease it real well, wrap it in plastic wrap and put it in the freezer for a couple of hours. Then while it's still cold, unwrap it and tap it into place with a 14mm deep socket. It should slide right in as freezing it will make it slightly smaller.

inittab

Yeah.... you know..... like what happens when you jump in a freezing cold pool.

bizarro

iTrader: (1)

Wankelguy

Ah yes, "shrinkage".

The difference is the pilot bearing doesn't get wrinkles, too.

RX-187

^Haha gotta laugh at that....."shrinkage"....heh

Thanks for the advice. Man, I wish I had rotary buddies around here ( I'm the only person w/ an FD and FB). But hey, I have y'all right?
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Thanks everyone! Kudos to you all.

LongDuck

Wae - same problem last weekend for me. My 84SE was getting the 'jitters' during 1st gear engagement from a dead stop and only when the clutch pedal was released. This is due to the Pilot Bearing (PB) getting trashed over 177k miles and going 'hand-grenade' inside the end of the eccentric shaft.

When I pulled the tranny out, small bits of shrapnel fell out and there wasn't a complete roller to the PB anywhere to be found. The inner race, needle bearing guide, and broken bits of needle bearing came out, but the inner race remained in the end of the eccentric shaft. This race had to be removed to install the replacement, obviously.

I started with the same stuff attempted above, pullers, hammers, chisels, etc. Nothing worked. The outer race wasn't budging.

Grabbed the dremel tool and went 'Monster Garage' on that thing. Ground the outer race down to the eccentric shaft in 3 places, which allowed the slam-hammer puller to fit in, whacked it out with 3 good tugs and then pulled the rest out with needle nose pliers. Had to grind the last little bit to get the race out, and as soon as it broke through the race, there was an audible 'TINK' sound from the race separating from the eccentric shaft.

The rest is history. Reinstallation of the tranny was a PITA, however, since the heat shields and header/presilencer were left in place during removal. Take your time, get it all lined up well, and use 2 jacks, or a dedicated tranny jack to slide it into position.

On startup last night (yes, it took 4-5 days of downtime) only a slight whirring sound was heard for 2-3 seconds after startup, then smooth and complete silence.

Money and time well spent.

While I was in there, I replaced the pressure plate, clutch disk, TOB, Tranny Front cover and cleaned and lubed everything. Replaced the solenoid for the starter, too, just because it was out. HTH,