I've read pretty much all "rear sway bar removal" threads of the past year, but yet to have a surefooted enough answer.

I've got 175lb rear springs out back, and was wondering if removing the rear sway would suit my driving.

I tend to like a car that feels like the rear will swing around on me rather than a car that may understeer more if the rear had that much more traction. I was wondering if my stiffer rear springs would provide a more neutral feel if I took the rear sway bar off?

I'm looking for a neutral - mild oversteer feel when the rear is at the limits of adhesion. I'm all for removing the sway bar if the difference in traction really has that much more of an improvement, but not at the expense of a car that feels like it has the slightest chance of pushing through and out of a turn.

Honestly, I love how my car currently feels with the rear bar on. The only problem I have is the inside rear wheel lifting. It's very frustrating when you're LSD is worn as well

Front suspension mods only include RB springs and RB front sway bar, if it helps at all...

 

removing the rear sway bar isnt too hard. just tale it off, drive the car and see if you like it

 

Your front suspension is way too soft for 175 springs.

Most racers use upwards of 300 pound springs in the front and a maximum of 175 while still using the Watts link. If you stiffen the front, it will break away more in tune to the back, bringing the car back towards a more neutral feel, while still allowing you to retain the rear bar.

 

I have commented on this several times, the best way to test is to autocross the car and between runs disconnect the rear sway bar end links on one end, then see how it feels and actually compare times in an equal environment. Hint loosen the end link prior to the day so it comes off easy at the track.

You do need to upgrade your fronts if you want it to tend to oversteer.

 

The RB front spring rate is 145 lbs.
Why do you have 175's with a rear bar?
Having that kind of bias between front and rear is downright dangerous. (e.i. you're coming around a corner with the back hanging out and all of a sudden you need to come to a complete stop, figure out what happens; try autocrossing your car with that setup )

 

Are the front springs stock diameter but the rears 2.5 inch coilovers, if so the 145 to 175 is not a direct comparison, the narrower 2.5 inch spring makes for a higher rate. This said the RB springs are still way too soft for the 175 rear.

Yes, definately try it out in an autocross, and dont turn near any posts...lol

 

On a stock suspension, from my experience, the front tends to push, then the rear will snap out, with little warning. The stiffer the rear is, keeping the sway bar, the more snap it will tend to have. What are your front spring rates and are the bars and shocks oem?

You need to address shocks, springs and sway bars as a whole, both front and rear. Don't forget bushings either. I have upgraded everything in the widebody and my rear bar is the ST adjustable. I can adjust it for over, under or neutral steer.

 

Lol! Every turn in (trail-braking) is met with a little steering correction, therefore, the rear is always in check. As for trying it out in autocross, I will try it at Willow Springs next weekend since I'm not much of an autocross guy. The RB front springs were purchased as I am saving up for a coilover setup.

I only need to disconnect one side of the bar?

BTW, coming into a turn loose, I actually DID have to brake HARD! The back came around nice and quick, but the steering felt natural to react to the body movement. I ended up almost fully stopped pointed in the right direction (freeway off-ramp).

 

Yes, removing one end link will disable the rear bar. Then it's also easy to put it back on if you're still not sure.

 

If your inside rear wheel is lifting, then you need stiffen up the front end a bit. Removing the rear sway (disconnect one end link) will help until you are able to correct the front end. The snap oversteer issue is caused by binding in the rear suspension. Stiffer springs will result in less suspension movement and therefore, less binding potential. Fix your front end to stiffen it up a bit, and you should be all set. Also, higher front tire pressure will result in more oversteer/higher rear tire pressure will result in less oversteer.

 

Alright, just got back from the track (SOWS). My first session I left the rear sway bar still connected, and it was HORRIBLE! Mostly because my LSD is not working, but that coupled with the inside rear wheel lifting through every turn makes for a horrible experience when you're trying to keep up with Evo's, STi's, and one particular Lotus Elise

So before my next session out, I disconnected the rear sway bar endlinks. Difference was not TOO drastic, but it made enough of a difference where I was able to lay down power early like I would need to. However, my tires were not up to the task (Falken Azenis RT215) as they were getting too hot after maybe 3 laps.

I was able to brake as deep (but not as late) into the turns as the Evo's and STi's, although my rear was hanging out as I did so. Nothing like flying into the hairpin at the end of a straight slightly sideways.. lol. BTW, I was using Hawk HP+ pads all around.

On almost every turn I was able to apply throttle earlier than every car, but only so much throttle. Right after the apex, the big power turbo cars would catch up QUICK, and pass

Anyways, I'll probably do another event on Dec. 9th at the same track... but this time I'll try the PBandJ rear suspension bushings mod. Hopefully it'll help while I'm waiting for RE Speed to make those coilover sleeves so I can complete the front end suspension mods.

 

????? Spring rate is spring rate regardless of spring diameter. Spring rate is measured in pounds per inch. Put 100 lbs on a spring and it drops down 1 inch = 100 pound springs. Similarly put 200 lbs on a spring and it drops down 1 inch = 200 pound springs. This is of course assuming that you have non-progressive springs.

If I remember some of my schooling correctly.... spring diameter does figure into the spring rate, as well as wire diameter, spring length, and material propertries if you want to calculate spring rate.

But you're right 145# springs on front with 175# springs on the back is not a good match. The fronts probably need to be 400# or so unless you've done some other non-stock modifications to the back.

 

I guess the question is what's more important to you, lap times or fun handling. In Showroom Stock we'd disconnect the rear bar for better lap times, but we had to fight the understeer in tight corners. On the street, the car's a lot more fun with the bar connected.

 

I have a big front bar, adjustable rear bar set on the softest setting (probably still as stiff as stock or stiffer), tociko's out back and stock struts in the front, stock springs all around and the car is pretty neutral at the limit.