claytonsmith

****... so i found out that the car i was looking at picking up (85 gsl) needs a pilot bearing.....if im correct the pilot bearing is in/on the end of the e shaft correct?



im trying to visualise this here... can someone kinda lay out how hard it is to get the old one out and put a new one in?

or... if anyine has a link to some pictures that'd be great im trying to visualise where the bearing goes/how its situated etc


also can you drive a car with a bad pilot bearing without doing any damage to it? i know that is teh case w/ a throwout bearing....
thanks!!

Unsupa

iTrader: (2)

well, for a visual image... imagine you dropped the tranny and got your head up to look at the e-shaft in the middle of the flywheel. the bearing is inside there, and can be a pain to get out w/o the pilot bearing removal tool or some air tools... You could try the 'whack at it with a screwdriver until it breaks and bends' so you can pull it out, or perhaps try the grease packing technique (which didn't work for me).. But once you get it out it's a peice o' cake putting the new one in.. (line it up with the hole, grab a block of wood to put over it, and whack with a hammer)

claytonsmith

gracias.... but

can i drive the car while the bearing is bad?? or an i gonna screw something up?

mwatson184

I wouldn't drive it for too long like that. It will be a little noisy and you will probably get some clutch chatter.

cdrad51

If it gets bad enough you won't be able to shift.

cosmicbang

Most of the work is just unbolting everything to get to the bearing, good opportunity to replace the clutch. There are a number of ways to get the bearing out. DO NOT use a grinder or dremel!! You can easily mess up the e-shaft. Use the bearing remover tool, or a generic puller, or the hook attachment on a slide hammer, or that tool--(whats it called--lifter remover/valve guide puller tool?)--with the 4 hooks and ball bearing that spreads them out. Or try the grease/water and dowel procedure. In additon to the grease/water and dowel trick, there is a description of a easily home-made puller here:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...=pilot+bearing

claytonsmith

****.... i think the guy tried to replace it once.... i heard some mention of a dremel... i hope the e shaft isnt screwed.. i definately cant afford one..... maybe i can work something out with him like... i'll get teh car and put a bearing in it.... if the e shaft is screwed i wont pay for the car and he'll take it back or somehting


ok now that im done typing my thoughts....

thanks guys

LongDuck

The only difficulty that you may find if you don't replace this is that the pilot bearing is spinning when the engine is running, but the transmission is clutch-IN, so the clutch is not spinning the transmission. As soon as you let out the clutch (normal driving), the pilot bearing is no longer spinning, since the engine E-shaft and transmission are now turning at the same RPM.

What this usually exhibits itself as (a bad pilot bearing) is that when you push the clutch in to shift, the pilot bearing won't spin up fast enough, and it will continue to 'try' to turn the transmission - this will make your shift seem to grind the synchro's even though you have the clutch all the way in. Usually is most noticable when trying to make fast gear changes, not allowing enough time for the pilot bearing to spin-up and drop engine rpm while the clutch is in.

Before I do my next clutch job, I'll be buying that Mazdatrix tool built specially for this purpose:



For $100, how could you go wrong compared to the aggravation of using the wrong tools for the job???

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I'd love to have that tool. I once had to use a dremel to cut through the race of a pilot bearing. Then I folded it in on itself and pulled the pieces out. Not a fun job.

cosmicbang

Would be good to have that tool. They were not always readily available. It looks very similar to the tool I was trying to describe--lifter remover/valve guide puller or whatever--except the sliding part is heavier. I also have a puller attachment that fits in the hole perfectly, bought from the Snap-on guy. Here is the home-made puller, seems like it might work just as well:

TexasGunRunner

I was having trouble shifting and there was a noise coming from below the shifter. Based on advice here, I decided it was probably the clutch hydraulics and the noise was the throwout bearing.

When I pulled the tranny, the inner race of the pilot (needle) bearing was dust...the bearing pins all fell to the bottom.

I did purchase the tool from Mazdatrix, and pulling the outer race and grease seal was a breeze.

This really explains a lot. I was still worried I was loosing a synchro gear because all the other components I pulled looked good (throwout bearing was passable, clutch and stuff looked fine).

Anyway, I always 'upgrade' on repairs, so I used this as an excuse to put in a new RB header, a stage II centerforce clutch, and CF throwout bearing). I am just trying to put the tranny back, so maybe I will try it without replacing the hydraulics, even though I bought those parts.

LD's description is exactly what was happening...sometimes it would grind, other times it just would not left me shift, even if I pumped the clutch.

Thanks,
Brian T. Carter

Wankelguy

A bad pilot bearing also causes undue wear on the input shaft bearing as it's forward end isn't being properly supported.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Thanks for that post Long Duck, now I finally know what the problem is with my car. I'm currently in the process of rebuilding a 12a and since its all in pieces I got a picture of the pilot bearing for whoever wants to see it. It came out kinda shitty, but it'll give you the idea, if you save it to your computer and use an image program to zoom out a few times it gets clearer. Anyway, thats my contribution
Oh yea, I also plan on getting the mazdatrix pilot bearing tool, after seeing what it looks like in person, its clearly the only way to go.

TexasGunRunner

FWIW, the 9/16" Craftsman deep socket (3/8" drive) is the perfect size to use in place of the special Mazda tool for seating the new needle (pilot) bearing.

The OD is small enough it will allow you to properly seat the bearing, with full metal contact on the outer race of the bearing - so it isn't damaged. You need to drive it in far enough to place the oil seal in the same hole after the needle (pilot) bearing.

Also, if anyone in San Antonio, ever needs to borrow the bearing puller, just IM me.

Thanks,
Brian T. Carter

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

you get a steel dowel rod, or something short and solid, and cylandrical. something the will fit snug inside the flywheel where the pilot bearing is. fill the pilot bearing and it well with grease. fill it until it can't be filled any more. stick the dowel rod or equivelint into the pilot bearing just a little. now, smack the dowel into the pilot bearing well. the impact from the dowel will compress the grease and it will actually push out the pilot bearing. you may need to repeat it a couple times or until you can get enough to pull out manually. hope this helps.

cosmicbang

Never tried it but should you be wearing a face shield when you do that? I'm getting a pretty funny mental image of the grease spooging out, shooting all over your face, and the pilot bearing embedding itself between the eyes.

claytonsmith

thanks for teh pics

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

a face sheild wouldn't hurt. i reccomend something along the lines of saftey glasses

Wankelguy

A local parts house loans their pilot bearing removal tool if you leave a deposit. Last time I had it, I noticed that the little edges on the jaws weren't quite the right size/shape to grab the edge of the pilot bearing very well, so I modified it a bit with a hammer and file until it was perfect. So now I'm pretty well set for the next time.

Here's another trick for installing the new pilot bearing: grease the bearing and put it in the freezer in a plastic bag for an hour or so. When you unwrap the cold bearing, it will practically slide right in, but I usually use a deep 14mm socket to tap it in anyway.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

that works well on other cars but it never worked for me on RX motors. its actually easier just to grind it.

Rotary13B1

iTrader: (8)

elwood

iTrader: (1)

That grease trick is an old-timer's solution for removing pilot bushings in domestic cars. It works sometimes on domestic cars because the bushing face is wide enough that the grease has something to react against. The face on the pilot bearing is so small, it doesn't work too well. I've changed about 4 or 5 of those things and I've tried the grease trick twice -- didn't work either time.

As for the bearing removal tool -- an earlier post mentioned borrowing it from an auto parts store. This is your best bet. The deposit on mine was about $25 + free rental. I told the guy I wasn't going to return it -- he said 'OK' and ordered a replacement one for the store right away. We're still friends, the store has a new bearing puller, and I have my own $25 bearing puller that I didn't have to wait for.

exodus82

I raplace my pilot bearing about a year ago. When i took it out it was jus a bunck of pins and needles. You better hope that the E-shaft is not in too bad of condition or it will just eat up a new bearing if it is scored up real bad. Make sure you use some emery clothe to get it smooth. Plus you should replace the rear seal and pilot seal as long as you have your tranny pulled.

claytonsmith

ok resurrected from the dead...

one more question

is the pilot bearing inside teh e-shaft.. or in the flywheel?? i;m getting some conflicting answers...

and either way.. do you have to remove the flywheel in order to replace teh bearing


thanks for beaing patient.. i;m learning this stuff

cosmicbang

You are imagining this more complicated than it really is. The bearing is inside the e- shaft. The flywheel has a hole in the middle that the the e-shaft goes through. Then the big nut goes around the outside of the e-shaft holding the flywheel on. You do not have to remove the flywheel to change the bearing. The process is not that difficult. Typically you change the bearing whenever you change the clutch, so you would have the clutch plate off the flywheel, making it easier to get to the bearing. You may as well change the clutch assembly anyway since you are there. Remove the driveshaft and drop the transmission. The transmission input shaft is sitting inside the e-shaft, and riding on the bearing so when you take it out you will have to slide it back and then down. Then unbolt the clutch plate and take it off. Looking at the back of the engine you will see the shaft with the bearing inside. There is a seal in front of the bearing which will come out first when you pull the bearing. You need to replace the seal along with the bearing. Do not get any dirt in the e-shaft, transmission input shaft, or on the bearing.

It is very straightforward to change the clutch but you might want to get the haynes or look at the shop manual online. There might be some pictures in there. The Haynes has a good write-up, however it indicates you don't really need a clutch alignment tool, but in fact its next to impossible without one. A spare transmission input shaft works for that purpose. Buy, make, or borrow an appropriate bearing remover tool ahead of time, and make sure you have a safe way to get the car up in the air high enough to get the transmission out. You will be pushing and wrenching around under the car and if it is not stable you can get crushed.