Pics of the engine.
smog nazi destroyer
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 1
From: california
being a completely different type of engine, can a 5.0 even pass emission test, regardless of the sniffer..
i guess this goes more for those areas that have a visual test, can it pass that?
i guess this goes more for those areas that have a visual test, can it pass that?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
From: Winnipeg,Manitoba
Originally posted by peejay
300hp is nice but it's nothing compared to 500hp
And you're missing the point - a 500hp 5-liter is more likely to pass emissions than a 500hp rotary. In areas where there is testing, that is very important to think about.
300hp is nice but it's nothing compared to 500hp
And you're missing the point - a 500hp 5-liter is more likely to pass emissions than a 500hp rotary. In areas where there is testing, that is very important to think about.
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,856
Likes: 568
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Yes. You have to have all of the smog equipment in place and operational from the year of the engine's manufacture. (This goes for V8 swaps as well as FC engine swaps) You can't backdate, though - you can only put a same-year or newer engine in.
I know of at least one California smog-legal 5.0 swap. It can be done.
I know of at least one California smog-legal 5.0 swap. It can be done.
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,856
Likes: 568
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Originally posted by Winnipeg85GSL
And it won't blow up in 2.5 seconds
And it won't blow up in 2.5 seconds
I'm amazed that it passed the sniffer test! Car had long-tubes and a pair of high-flow cats on it, which I guess was good enough....
Okay, This is getting old - Fast. As much as I don't like it, everybody can do whatever they want to their car.
WinnipegGSL, good luck in your conversion. You will always remain an honorary rotorhead. I bet you will miss the high RPM buzz.
I believe that your location may have alot to do with your decision. You're probably in the land of V8's, and a real rotary mechanic is nowhere to be found.
Personally, I feel that if you originally had a seriously strong running car, you might have re-considered. If you drove a streetported or bridgeported 13B, you would have very likely gone that route. - Yes, they are that nice. You evenseem to be converting PeeJay to go V8. (but then again, for some reason, he doesn't like 13B's, go figure)
I personally love V8's and cars of all kinds. From 5.0 Stangs, to 350 Vettes and everything in between. Hell I even like a properly done VTEC equipped car. I am a car lover in their true form. I don't like them raped too much for modifications. My Ford Screw is a V8, my Vert Eclipse Spyder is a V6, and my Rex is a Rotary.
A Hemi is a Hemi, a BOSS 302 is a Boss 302, and so on and so on, so to make a long story short, make that Rx-7 proud, and please don't do one of those Viper wannabe kits on it.
WinnipegGSL, good luck in your conversion. You will always remain an honorary rotorhead. I bet you will miss the high RPM buzz.
I believe that your location may have alot to do with your decision. You're probably in the land of V8's, and a real rotary mechanic is nowhere to be found.
Personally, I feel that if you originally had a seriously strong running car, you might have re-considered. If you drove a streetported or bridgeported 13B, you would have very likely gone that route. - Yes, they are that nice. You evenseem to be converting PeeJay to go V8. (but then again, for some reason, he doesn't like 13B's, go figure)
I personally love V8's and cars of all kinds. From 5.0 Stangs, to 350 Vettes and everything in between. Hell I even like a properly done VTEC equipped car. I am a car lover in their true form. I don't like them raped too much for modifications. My Ford Screw is a V8, my Vert Eclipse Spyder is a V6, and my Rex is a Rotary.
A Hemi is a Hemi, a BOSS 302 is a Boss 302, and so on and so on, so to make a long story short, make that Rx-7 proud, and please don't do one of those Viper wannabe kits on it.
ok, i never said a damn thing about not posting opinions. "world's largest rotary community", its right at the top peejay. thus my remark about coming into a large specialized group and yelling 302. and power/weight ratio is also for engines felix, not just the cars. starting with a better power/weight ratio engine is obviously going to make a huge difference in the car since the engine is a bulk weight.
i wasn't rude towards him. i just stated why he was getting the feed back he was and mearly saying what do you expect. if he wants to put his wheel on the roof of the car and try for the fastest upside down car, then by all means go for it. i don't care.
i wasn't rude towards him. i just stated why he was getting the feed back he was and mearly saying what do you expect. if he wants to put his wheel on the roof of the car and try for the fastest upside down car, then by all means go for it. i don't care.
are you trying to be an *******, felix? i was just curious because i never remember offending you. and yes if my motor put out a better power/weight ratio then i'd be happy. if my car does the same then i just handed you your *** and that engine was one of the big factors.
the ported lawnmower sounds like a good idea..........
the ported lawnmower sounds like a good idea..........
Originally posted by peejay
Aww jeez...
Okay. The 302 is about the same weight as the 12A.
Aww jeez...
Okay. The 302 is about the same weight as the 12A.
So, you're seriously trying to tell me that a cast-iron Ford 302 weighs 260 lbs.? Really? I had no idea...
Originally posted by jeremy
are you trying to be an *******, felix? i was just curious because i never remember offending you. and yes if my motor put out a better power/weight ratio then i'd be happy. if my car does the same then i just handed you your *** and that engine was one of the big factors.
are you trying to be an *******, felix? i was just curious because i never remember offending you. and yes if my motor put out a better power/weight ratio then i'd be happy. if my car does the same then i just handed you your *** and that engine was one of the big factors.
Mind yer manners, boy!
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,856
Likes: 568
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Originally posted by mar3
So, you're seriously trying to tell me that a cast-iron Ford 302 weighs 260 lbs.? Really? I had no idea...
So, you're seriously trying to tell me that a cast-iron Ford 302 weighs 260 lbs.? Really? I had no idea...
http://www.geocities.com/geo_42_99/trx/trx-1.htm
The 12A is also pretty damned heavy, too. The front end height was still within factory specs with the V8!
Has anyone ever thought of doing (or have done) a piston swap that wasn't a V8? Like a audi engine or something like that. you know a 4 banger. That would really lighten up the car plus if tuned right you can get some decent HP from it. Just a thought. Rotaries are still my engine of choice for my rex but I was just thinking about it.
Super Newbie
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,398
Likes: 1
From: Birmingham, AL
If its all about power/weight on the engine only, why is it such a sin to throw a Ford small block in that can crank out 500 hp and still weigh what a stockish 12A weighs?
You also have to think that turbo manifolds, turbos, FMIC's, all that **** is heavy too.
You also have to think that turbo manifolds, turbos, FMIC's, all that **** is heavy too.
OK, got tired of the myth that a Ford 302 is about the same weight as a 12A. I don't like it when a fabrication is repeated so many times as truth that it eventually becomes "true". Mazda '80 rotary with everything minus thermal reactor is 280 lbs. With thermal reactor, about 360 lbs. The Ford 302 weighs 480 lbs. dressed and about 430 lbs. without the exhaust manifolds. One site pegged 460, another said 480 and a Ford forum I had a friend pop the question in (because I wasn't going to ever register myself, I'm a Pontiac guy when it comes to domestic iron...) also came back with the 480 figure and said the Boss 302 was 500 lbs. like he was proud of that or something...In conclusion, THE FORD 302 IS IN NO WAY SIMILAR IN WEIGHT TO A 12A!! IT IS, IN FACT, A BOAT ANCHOR IN OUR BELOVED RX-7s... We might as well start throwing mouse motors in Superbirds next...
ps. If it's all power to weight, get an early Honda Civic, mid-mount the Ford and hang junkyard transaxles and splitter from a 4-wheeler, so you've got yourself a homebuilt rally rocket....
ps. If it's all power to weight, get an early Honda Civic, mid-mount the Ford and hang junkyard transaxles and splitter from a 4-wheeler, so you've got yourself a homebuilt rally rocket....
Last edited by mar3; Apr 27, 2002 at 08:07 AM.
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,856
Likes: 568
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Mar3... you can't deny that if the ride height doesn't change with the stock mushy springs, then weight hasn't changed much... BTW you've got some numbers wrong.... it's 380lb with thermal reactor. Now figure 430lb without manifolds (headers weigh very little). Put on an aluminum intake manifold, remove the A/C, and weight is so close it doesn't matter.
BTW speaking of "other" swaps... I was looking into putting a Ford 2.3 Turbo in my GXL. I stopped that line of thought when I realized that the 2.3 weighs as much as a 5.0! The Ford small-block is a very light casting, and the 2.3 is an extremely heavy casting.
I was also thinking of a VW inline-four swap into my Isuzu, that line of thinking got nixed when I realized there are NO transmissions that will bolt to it, just transaxles. Such a shame, too... at the time, 1.6/1.9 turbodiesel blocks could be had for next to nothing, and would be a good starting point for a heavily turbocharged gas engine.
BTW speaking of "other" swaps... I was looking into putting a Ford 2.3 Turbo in my GXL. I stopped that line of thought when I realized that the 2.3 weighs as much as a 5.0! The Ford small-block is a very light casting, and the 2.3 is an extremely heavy casting.
I was also thinking of a VW inline-four swap into my Isuzu, that line of thinking got nixed when I realized there are NO transmissions that will bolt to it, just transaxles. Such a shame, too... at the time, 1.6/1.9 turbodiesel blocks could be had for next to nothing, and would be a good starting point for a heavily turbocharged gas engine.
Punk Ass Bitch
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Welland, Ontario
WHAT-EVER.
So I took it personally, lol. I have a 2.3 turbo, and I can tell you right now, if you stick a 5.0 in it, you have to do some major mods to the suspension...unless you have an RS5000 front end and control bars...but that doesn't matter. We damned merkur enthusiasts always boast about how much faster you can get with a 2.3 than that damned 5.0.
A stock merkur 5-speed is really close at speed with a stock 5.0. But with mods, the 2.3 is better...
I'm hurt.
So I took it personally, lol. I have a 2.3 turbo, and I can tell you right now, if you stick a 5.0 in it, you have to do some major mods to the suspension...unless you have an RS5000 front end and control bars...but that doesn't matter. We damned merkur enthusiasts always boast about how much faster you can get with a 2.3 than that damned 5.0.
A stock merkur 5-speed is really close at speed with a stock 5.0. But with mods, the 2.3 is better...
I'm hurt.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,444
Likes: 0
From: Fort Branch, Indiana
Heres what gets me
No offense to any v8 swappers here or anything...
But someone posts a thread about putting a V8 in a Rx-7 in the 'The World's Largest Rotary Community' and the thread is almost 5 pages long...
Someone posts a thread about putting a 13b in a 12A and its maybe what 2 pages... Why does this have to gather so much attention?
Only good thing I see about a v8 is the fact they dont '****' them on a rebuild kit. What rotarys need is some good ole fashion competition in building rebuild parts so good ole mazda no longer has the monopoly on the subject. surely someone out there may eventually figure this out
No offense to any v8 swappers here or anything...
But someone posts a thread about putting a V8 in a Rx-7 in the 'The World's Largest Rotary Community' and the thread is almost 5 pages long...
Someone posts a thread about putting a 13b in a 12A and its maybe what 2 pages... Why does this have to gather so much attention?
Only good thing I see about a v8 is the fact they dont '****' them on a rebuild kit. What rotarys need is some good ole fashion competition in building rebuild parts so good ole mazda no longer has the monopoly on the subject. surely someone out there may eventually figure this out
Last edited by MIKE-P-28; Apr 27, 2002 at 10:41 AM.
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,856
Likes: 568
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Trust me, the 2.3 turbo weighs about the same as the 5.0. The block is VERY heavy. It's an old European design, and didn't use the superlight "thinwall" casting techniques that Ford USA developed in the late 50's/early 60's, and first used on the 221 V8 (same engine family as the 302 and 5.0). It's that same heaviness that allows you to make stupid amounts of power with the 2.3 without an aftermarket block...
From http://www.angelfire.com/ar/dw42/engfyi.htm :
For ***** and giggles:
From http://www.angelfire.com/ar/dw42/engfyi.htm :
Code:
Ford 2.3 Lima/Pinto L4 418 (2) (also 2.0, 2.5) Ford 2.3 Lima/Pinto L4 307 (18) Ford 2.3 Lima/Pinto L4 450 (2) (turbo) Ford 2.3 L4 Turbo 380 (162) Turbo T-Bird engine w/turbo, flywheel
Code:
Ford 255 Windsor 468 (4)
Ford 289/302 V8 460 (168) (late 5.0s are a bit lighter)
Ford 221-302W 460 (48)
Ford Indy 255 pushrod 360 (120) all aluminum, 1963
Ford Indy 255 DOHC 400 (120) 1964, later known as Foyt Coyote V8
Ford 5.0 V8 450 (109)
Ford 5.0 V8 411 (171) 89 Mustang 5.0 GT (dry) inc: manifold,
carb(?), headers and alternator. Not
inc: starter, smog pump, power steering
pump, AC compressor, flywheel
Mazda 12A rotary 348 (20) (RX7) (with oil and water)
Mazda 12A rotary 356 (20) (Japanese model turbo, EFI)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,444
Likes: 0
From: Fort Branch, Indiana
Originally posted by peejay
I'd rather see someone do a V8 swap than a 13B swap, personally. 13B swap is just like assuming the 12A is no good, while a V8 swap is just being different.
I'd rather see someone do a V8 swap than a 13B swap, personally. 13B swap is just like assuming the 12A is no good, while a V8 swap is just being different.
I just weighed my descions and this is the best route for me, im $3500 into it now with another maybe 2k to go
But it will be a beast
Old [Sch|F]ool
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,856
Likes: 568
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
No offense, but 13B is just giving up and not trying to get the power from a 12A... the 12A is a revvier engine than the 13B... more rotarylike.... I figure, if you want to move away from that, might s well go all the way and put a SBF in there.
I'm still trying to figure out how to put a 12A in the '87 and make it pass emissions
I'm still trying to figure out how to put a 12A in the '87 and make it pass emissions
Originally posted by peejay
Mar3... you can't deny that if the ride height doesn't change with the stock mushy springs, then weight hasn't changed much...
Mar3... you can't deny that if the ride height doesn't change with the stock mushy springs, then weight hasn't changed much...
Originally posted by peejay
BTW you've got some numbers wrong.... it's 380lb with thermal reactor.
BTW you've got some numbers wrong.... it's 380lb with thermal reactor.
Originally posted by peejay
Now figure 430lb without manifolds (headers weigh very little). Put on an aluminum intake manifold, remove the A/C, and weight is so close it doesn't matter..
Now figure 430lb without manifolds (headers weigh very little). Put on an aluminum intake manifold, remove the A/C, and weight is so close it doesn't matter..
ps. Thanks for the tip on the drum brakes. It's the first time I actually dis-assembled the drums and looked at how the adjusters work. I'm back to the hard brakes I remember and a E-brake that works again...
On a sad note, while it was in the air, I spun the tires and they both went in the same direction. I lowered the passenger side and tried to turn the driver's side wheel. It gave minimal resistance. I'll start my research on this forum on what's involved in swapping pumpkins since I know of 6 disc rears at my favorite boneyard, right now...
Last edited by mar3; Apr 27, 2002 at 10:54 AM.
