Ive been reading around about autox, its something I have been interested in after I relized maybe its not the best idea to try and build a drift car out of a fb. Main reason being these beautys are expensive to frankinstein together unlike 240sx's



First thing, this is my daily driver. I dont care about a rough ride it will be worth the hard bump here and there, plus those keep you awake
After reading a few threads about suspension setups and such I have became confused with spring rates. Most everyone had different opinions on what should be used. will 275front 150 rear handle to what Ive read it does or is there better?

The no rear sway bar thing, supposed to reduce snap oversteer correct? will this have any bad effects while cruising the town or backroads? sounds like it would increase roll which is not supposed to be a good thing.

Ok springs and sway bars, RE-Speed or Racing beat?

Most everything else I am pretty certain about.


Post advice, throw in threads I most likley missed stuff of the sort.

Thanks

 

The cost involved in stepping up to Respeed products is not much at all, once you consider that this is something that you will be doing once and (hopefully), doing right. However, the performance increase is worth ten times that amount.

I started out with RB products, and after a year I discovered that this wasn't really high performance stuff. It will stiffen up your 30 year old car, but it won't turn it into a handling monster like I wanted. So, off came all the RB stuff and on went the REspeed stuff. Big difference in quality, performance, and most of all customer service. Here's a little comparison for you:

Front Springs: RB springs claim a 1" drop with their "lowering springs", but in reality my car ended up riding damn near an inch higher after the swap. Ride was noticably firmer than stock springs, but it was no Porsche or Ferrari. Comfortable highway cruising is about the best I could say about it. Once you really start pushing the car's limits, you realize this ain't the answer.

With Respeed coilovers, you choose the spring rate you want. I went with 275 on the front in conjunction with the "race" version of the coilovers. A lot of people will say that 275 is way too light, and would recommend something like 450 Lb. springs on the front. But if you combine the lighter springs with the Respeed front swaybar (which is massive) you get the benefits of a softer ride, better adhesion to the pavement, and still get zero body roll when pushing the limits. I don't think you should try to control body roll with high spring rates. That's what swaybars are for... And, of course, the true benefit of coilovers; they allow you to decide on the ride height you want, exactly what you want...

Swaybars: The Racing Beat swaybar does an excellent job. That cannot be disputed. It's cheap, massive, and keeps the car from rolling in the turns. But these things are truly massive! I haven't weighed one, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were close to 30 pounds or so. And that weight is placed well in front of the front wheels, which will hurt performance. Comes with standard non-adjustable end links.

The Respeed bar, I'm sure you will notice, is quite a bit more expensive. But when you consider that this is a one time purchase (unlike tires or performance brake pads), and look at the benefits of this type of bar, then you may decide it is worth the extra $$$. The Respeed bar's biggest advantage is it's weight. It is made of high quality materials, so it can be made hollow. This bar (in my opinion) outperforms the RB bar by a long shot. The adjustable end links alone look like works of art, using heim joints (picture ball in socket) and turnbuckles to allow you to remove any preloading and fine tune the handling. Its light as a feather, and is finished like a work of art.

Rear Springs: With Racing Beat, you get one choice (which I believe is like 110 or 125 Lbs) in spring rates. And, as mentioned before, they have been shown to raise the car rather than lower it.

Now, here there is a pretty big difference in pricing. With RB, you get springs. With Respeed, you get springs with a rate of your choosing and an adjustable rear perch to put it on. This allows you to set the rear ride height according to your wishes. And again, high quality, easy installation, and easy to use when making changes.


And to respond to your question on removal of the rear swaybar.... This is often done by the Road Racers, and by those with stock suspension. Autocrossers tend to be a 50/50 mix. I tried it when I had the RB suspension, and couldn't tell much difference other than without the bar I had more understeer, and less wheel spin on the inside tire when exiting turns. With the bar on, I had better control through slaloms and such. I put it back on, and got a limited slip rear end to deal with the wheel spin.

But, the entire Snap Oversteer problem is not very hard to understand. And once it is understood, you can more easily deal with it. When the stock suspension is pushed to its limits (in regards to travel range), it can hit a point where it just plain binds up. It reaches a point where it just can't move any further, and when that happens you can suddenly lose traction. But you can easily make this whole problem just simply go away. How? By reducing the amount of suspension travel so that it never reaches that point of binding.

So, you put on some stiffer springs, and you mount up your performance front swaybar, and what happens? Your suddenly using only a portion of that previously mentioned suspension travel. So now, not only can you put your old swaybar back on the rear of the car, but you can actually consider stepping up to something even stiffer. And in the end, you have a car that handles like a go-kart.

And lets not forget struts and shocks either. If you can afford adjustable shocks, like the Tokico Illuminas, then get them. They will allow you to switch from high performance rock hard settings to comfy cadillac cruiser settings in a matter of seconds. Very nice to have...

Take a look at some of the videos in my signature line if you want to see what I'm running. The older videos are using RB stuff, and you can really see the difference when compared to the later videos.

Sorry about the long winded reply, but its Saturday morning, I've got a few hours to kill before race time, I've got a very big cup of coffee in front of me, and I've run both company's products, so this is an interesting question for me. Hope you can pull something out of all of this that will help you with your decisions...



.

 

couple of additional points.

the sway bar links the two sides of the suspension together. the bigger the bar the less "independent" it is. on a 1st gen this applies to the front. i have a GC bar in mine (ex-pro7 car) and if i put the jack under one control arm, i get 2" or travel before the car is in the air.


rear bar; auto-x you need the car to respond FAST, road racing is a little bigger, and higher speed so you can trade response speed for predictable. there is no right or wrong answer about the rear bar, its up to the drivers preference and the stopwatch.

to an extent the shock you choose dictates the spring rate. for example the pro7 setup was 350f springs with illuminas, and that is basically the limit of the shock. additionally anything over 350 is prolly not streetable.

if my car wasnt built already Re-Speed looks good (and billy is cool)

 

Nice, This cleared things up alot. Yeah adjustables for me is a must since the roads in NC go from suck to WOOHOO depending on where you are going. I dont plan on going for cheap either because I do want to start doing hillclimb or touge once i get way more used to how my car controls under the stress of autox and I become a better driver.

 

The best way to learn your car I found is go to those touge roads and do them over n over (try to find a close one that you can go somewhere on) do it back n forth a few times a day daily, find series of turns and such and take them differently n such, go alittle quicker if its safe and feel the suspension...

Now I know when my fb will snap oversteer and its fun in parking lots lol, I knew my fc alot from just driving with my dad as a kid, now that I got the fb its like re-learning how to push the car.

If someone said hop in my blablabla fast car and said tear up a road I'd decline.

Oh and if your suspension is worn (I'd say esp front like mine is) replace it asap, I consider my FB unsafe, the front bottoms out and the rear kinda will on big bumps, it'll go out of control very randomly thus I can't really learn her yet

Kentetsu, that was awesome advise, I'll really look back at the re-speed stuff I almost bought RB springs and such, I'd be pissed if it was any higher.

 

i have a couple bad shocks and alot of bad bushings, so i tend to push her to what i feel is the limit without breaking something. once i get everything replaced ill start to push harder

 

My front will just drop randomly, the first sign for me not to push it was on a 20mph turn going 25 prolly hit alil bump and went about 6" out of line and was over the white line :X

 

whoa...cmanns, that is crazy, you really need to get it fixed asap.

the total price i spent on my suspension so far is about 2.5k... but that included 4 piston front brakes, new rotors, 15"wheels and tires, shocks, coilovers, bushings, camber plates, stage 1 cross-member, ss braided brake lines... planning on dropping another 600 on the rear and 400 on sway bars.

Damn i need a better job...

btw, i was originally planning on getting racingbeat suspension parts... but then got respeed, i don't think i could be much happier.

 

I was considering the RE-Speed suspension upgrades when a friend of mine brought up an excellent point - I work on the days that I would otherwise be on tracks or autocrosses, and therefore would never get to use my car in those situations. He was telling me that I should just buy the Racing Beat stuff because of this.

I think I'm going to go with the RE-Speed stuff anyway when the time comes.

 

if you consider the price difference it really isn't worth it to buy the RB parts, you wont get the drop you want, and you wont get as much performance as you may want.

 

Agreed. The racing beat stuff will feel pretty good compared to the original equipment, but before too long you'll be feeling like you've "outgrown" it and want more. But by that point, you've already spent your cash. It would be much easier to start out with the Respeed gear, like I wish I would have...

 

As said, you will get bored with the RB stuff. I've been running RB springs and sway bars with Tokico Blues for about 3 years. It's great on the street and now that I've finally got a larger set of wheels on there the wheel gap isn't as bad. I'm a trucker so I usually miss most if not all the autocrosses, but I've been to the Deals Gap Rotary Rally twice and will continue going. That is where my RB suspensions limits really show up. The car is less responsive than I need it to be and I know I could go faster. After adding poly bushings everywhere it tightened up however it also became a little more tail happy, which made me even more wary of pushing the limits on that particular road. Being able to fine tune my suspension for that road would have made it much less nerve racking and much more fun. On top of that I would like to remove weight since my car seems to be about 150-200 lbs heavier than mostly everyone else. The RB bar as well as the RB exhaust play a big part in this.

 

might as well do it right the first time around so you dont out grow it then huh

 

Yep. I learned from my mistake, so now maybe some forum members won't have to learn the hard way too.

 

I learned from Kentetsu's mistake

 

You see? It's working already!

 

Me too. I just lack the funds to fix the mistake.

 

yeah, I'm still driving on my beat to crap suspension. I'm saving for a good suspension. and keep having to restart saving cash due to car breaking down and eating my moneys. But she's coming along nicely. But I've got a plan on what I'm going to do. I'm getting some 16" rims from my girlfriends landlord for painting the duplex. And I'm going to buy his T2 when I get my financial aid. I need a more reliable car, or a turbo or something. yeah I'm getting this before a suspension.