Matty's first 1st Gen

Hey guys,

Just bought a Housing off the net, and the chrome surface is in great shape, but there are some water jackets that worry me, some of the supportive sides are not there! I was hoping that i could JB weld and sand then down to the appropriate size. Is this possiable with good results and longevity, i figure this area wouldn't see extreme temperatures. and is i didn't repair it would the actualy water seals hold the coolant in or would the seal fail as a result? Take a look at the pics.

Thanks, Matt

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Sorry, but I think you got hosed on this one. I would not trust JB Weld for this type of repair, won't hold up. If the seal grooves are broken out, they can be repaired sometimes. I have yet to see anyone repair the seal seat like where your's is gone.

I hope you bought these through PayPal.

drunkclever

what about welding?

Matty's first 1st Gen

is it possiable to weld this? I have a small MIG maybe with some aluminum wire and shaping and grinding it might work out. JB weld has a slim chance of holding up, right?

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Mig, no, heliarc if the welder is excentional, then you have to deal with the distorn it causes and machine the seal land absolutely flat and hope the chrome didn't bulge the tiniest little bit inwards towards the apex seals.

Get your money back. Want another opinion, post pics in the building and porting section at NoPistons.

Hades12

Could you treat it like a bridge port? use a peice of side seal to make up for the lost portion?

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Nope, the side seal is a groove repair method, will not work on the land. What I think you are thinking of is a J-bridge port, where the port goes past the coolant seal, in which case the the coolant seal is cut out across the port.

Hades12

When ITO cuts a bridge into a 2nd gen plate he takes out the inner part of the water grove and replaces it with a side seal.

Matt's pics are a 12a or 13B with the water seal in the houseing, so why would the same repair not work on them? Cover the gap with a side seal so the water O ring does not try to pooch out.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The seal needs 4 faces to seal on. 3 of which are in the groove, the 4th being the land that is missing in the pics. I know of no way to make a lasting repair on the land, wish there was one. That is a very unusual failure. The first pic shows a small bit of corrosion, but the majority of it looks like a fracture, which I find odd.

While I'm out in the shop tonight, I'll take a look at some housings I have laying around. I may be looking at the land face incorrectly.

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

i would try and get your $$ back. that housing is not useable.

Matty's first 1st Gen

I don't understand the whole side seal thing? a side seal is much bigger than the water seal jacket. I think I'm going to try to get my money back, I don't think it would hold up very long, and i'm looking for reliability on this engine. although if i tried to get the housing heliarced would the welder need to know the exact type of aluminum alloy the housing is? If the housing was heater up first, and then overwelded and machined afterwards could this work? Man i have a new weber 48 IDA, and streetported plates all ready, I just need this last peice and its taking forever, its complete torture!

Matty's first 1st Gen

and it looks like there was just a manufacturing problem, cause there are lots of air bubles and imperfections on the exhaust coolant wall. there is no corrosion, just a garbage manufacture job done. I guess it expalins why the housing surface is in great shape, engine probably leaked alot of coolant and was not used very long.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The housings are porous due to the casting process, perfectly normal. Because of the prosity, it's a pita to heliarc. The guy I take parts to for heliarcing said the same thing about the RB intakes. He had trouble welding up a hole in one of mine that had been J-B Welded.

Matty's first 1st Gen

how expensive am i looking at to get it heliarced, I was thinking if he over welded it i could shape a new jacket and get my friend who works at a machine shop to machine it flat.

stilettoman

iTrader: (1)

I have done the "JBWELD" type repair, using a very high strength and high temp epoxy, and it worked great for about 20,000 miles. I agree with the people who are saying it is a throw away part. That particular housing is not going to lend itself to a decent weld repair - don't waste your time.

You can be pretty sure there is also corrosion you are not seeing. It only takes a very tiny pinhole to blow the water out of your cooling system. If you can't afford new rotor housings, buy a Honda.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Well, someone posting in this thread has made a total bonehead of themselves, the erroroneous quotes are below.

I had my grooves and lands turned around between the housings and irons.

Please correct me if I am wrong, again. I've had maybe 5 hours sleep in 2-1/2 days. The grooves are in the housings, not the irons as I was thinking.

If... the bottom of the grooves are NOT corroded, and the side part of the groove that is missing is not too long, these/this housing may be a good candidate for the side seal repair.

For a more experienced. qualified, and awake answer, please post these pics at Nopistons.com in the Engine Building and Porting section. If you can get Judge Ito to give his highly qualified opinion, take it. Please don't mention my name or responses.

Hades12, my apologies. I do believe you are correct and thank you for questioning me. This caused me to take look at a housing I had in the shop and realize my mistake

I'm going to go stand in the corner now and see if I can't get some sleep,

Matty's first 1st Gen

COuld some one shed a little light on this type of side seal repair, and how is it for its longevity?

Hades12

Ito uses it as a way to keep BP engines from failing. In a BP in a 2nd Gen the grove is in the plate, and once the BP is done you are very close to the grove, so he cuts it out (so it will not break out later) and replaces it with a peice of side seal. the side seal keeps the water O ring in place and covers the gap that has been removed. It is hard to imagine until you see it.


I have seen a pic of it. but NP lost a lot of posts about 6 months ago. I will search for it for a bit.

Hades12

Best I could find

http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...opic=47747&hl=

Matty's first 1st Gen

Thanks that really clears things up, so i assume the side seal would have to be ground down to the same height as the jacket groove correct? and maybe even thinned out a little bit, cause it looks like the 13b grooves are wider than 12a. do you think if i were to support and build up the inside where the hole is with JB weld it would be benificial?

Hades12

Correct


It might not hurt to build it up a little, But I might hurt the water pump or your rad if it lets loose.

Matty's first 1st Gen

Thanks for all your help, i think i'm just gonna try to get some money back, and buy another housing, i don't wanna take any chances with this engine.