EASY 2nd gen direct fire install - 20 minutes
Here is a quote of one of my posts on page 8 of this thread:
The 2nd gen ignitor can switch a much higher load before going into current limiting mode, and the spark duration is a lot longer than a J-109. It however needs a smart dwell device like an ECU to drive it. The J-109 is smart enough for this task I believe. If the transistor trick gives similar results to those I got when bench testing with my MegaSquirt, I may just stick with the transistor until I need a way to retard timing under boost, like when I get an SC.
I'm glad somebody brought this thread back up because I'd like to let everyone know they should keep the 2nd gen ignitor. There is a way to trigger it from your J-109 with a transistor circuit. It's a whole lot more powerful. I'm going to look into how to do it after I finish my current projects. Please everyone, keep your 2nd gen ignitors intact. Don't even remove them from the base. Simply bypass it for now since the ballast resistor is required for the J-109, and all that.
Anyone is welcome to attemp the transistor trick. I don't know enough about it to even attempt to explain how it works other than it allows the J-109 with its variable reluctance sensing and dwell capability to control the 'dumb' 2nd gen leading ignitor, which lacks the ability to correctly read the output of the 1st gen style pickup (VR sensor). The 2nd gen stuff was designed to trigger from a 5 volt square wave from an ECU. I've compared them while bench testing with my MegaSquirt, and the difference was shocking.
Anyone is welcome to attemp the transistor trick. I don't know enough about it to even attempt to explain how it works other than it allows the J-109 with its variable reluctance sensing and dwell capability to control the 'dumb' 2nd gen leading ignitor, which lacks the ability to correctly read the output of the 1st gen style pickup (VR sensor). The 2nd gen stuff was designed to trigger from a 5 volt square wave from an ECU. I've compared them while bench testing with my MegaSquirt, and the difference was shocking.
well i guess something isnt working on my car... im not sure if i just didnt hook something up right or if i am out of gas or what... but no start. i need to take the dizzy back out and put it in with the car at tdc. if that doesnt work i will need to find someone to crank it while i see if it has spark... but i am done for today.. if all else fails i will hook up regular direct fire or go back to points....
so i figured out that i am a retard... so next nice day that i can get outside to play with stuff is when i will try again.. i had everything wired up wrong.. so now i have the negatives of the coils going to both places they need to.. and the ignition source is ready to be wired up to the positive sides of everything... i do have a question though.. on the second gen coil which one is positive and which is negative?
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,228
Likes: 0
From: Darwin, NT, Australia
Just to let you all know, you can use other ignitors aswell, not just the mazda j-109 style ones.
Bosch sell a huge range of different ignitors. Some are much cheaper than others.
I ended up using a bosch 249-9-222-067-016 (IIRC..) which cost $50australian brand new..
Go to a local bosch supplier and ask them to have a poke around in their books for you and see what ones will work. The one i've listed works fine with the stock first gen dissy and has integral dwell control. There are many others aswell, if your in america find one that is common to your local cars that have electronic dissy's
Oh and its far cheaper than new ignitors for a first gen
Bosch sell a huge range of different ignitors. Some are much cheaper than others.
I ended up using a bosch 249-9-222-067-016 (IIRC..) which cost $50australian brand new..
Go to a local bosch supplier and ask them to have a poke around in their books for you and see what ones will work. The one i've listed works fine with the stock first gen dissy and has integral dwell control. There are many others aswell, if your in america find one that is common to your local cars that have electronic dissy's
Oh and its far cheaper than new ignitors for a first gen
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
From: Delhi, CA
wasted spark
my 1979 SA will be getting a 1985 electronic distributor this week. (as soon as it gets here)
Next step seems to be a DFIS. Can I trigger an Accell ecoil with dual high voltage terminals with the j109 in the '85 distributor? If not could I run the leads from the reluctor pickup to a GM HEI module and use that to trigger the Accell coil?
Next step seems to be a DFIS. Can I trigger an Accell ecoil with dual high voltage terminals with the j109 in the '85 distributor? If not could I run the leads from the reluctor pickup to a GM HEI module and use that to trigger the Accell coil?
13b P-port on a budget
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
Man after waiting to do this upgrade today i got the coil in but its different. the 2 fires going to th balst are tan. Link to pics. I am kinda lost now that I noticed the difference. So can someone help?
PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ncw812...?.dir=/bb91re2
PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ncw812...?.dir=/bb91re2
13b P-port on a budget
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
Ok after looking the color of the wires doesnt matter the top goes to the + of the stock coil and the bottom 1 goes to the - of the stock coil. Is this correct? It there a problem soldering wires or should i use connecters?
13b P-port on a budget
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
Really no one can answer my question? Another day waisted. I thought many people have done this. Its an easy question i am sure i am right but just wanna make sure before I hook it up.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
From: Florida
I kinda read through this thread and was wondering if both Leading plugs fire at the same time with this setup. If this is how this setup workz... isn't that incorrect? Shouldn't one leading plug fire right before the other? The rotors dont hit the plugs at the same time (or do they?) From what I recall...the rotors dont sit on the eccentric shaft at the same angle. Using direct fire does seem like a better way to go...but this question kinda concerns me.
GOT WANKEL?
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,324
Likes: 1
From: Kansas City, MO
lol. did this last night and hardest part was mounting for sure. (Dont worry trochoid, no new holes were drilled and all stock wiring was unmolested, new connections are crimped and shrinkwrapped. you would be proud lol) oh did i mention acceleration? I know some think that there is little to no difference for the upgrade, but i truely think there was some extra down low...